I'm going to play fan boy here. After almost finishing the second season I have to say Mr. Robot is the best TV show I think I have ever watched. Even better than Homeland.
The funny thing is if it didn't even involve hacking I would still consider my favorite show. The psychodrama existentialism of the show is so good. The plot is so damn good. The acting is so damn good.
Th music, the timing of title screen and the font used. I love it all.
- The actors are often out of character (or their development isn't clear) and
mumble unintelligible sentences targeted at milennials with existential crisis
(there are a few rants from the main character that would make 14-year-old-me
cringe).
- The plot reads a bit like Fight Club fan fiction with some American Psycho and
geopolitics bits thrown in.
- The pacing could be improved. Some chapters feel like a mere excuse to shoot
cool and edgy scenes where you don't see any progress until the expected cliffhanger.
- And the worst of all: Main character uses GNOME, codes in Python/Ruby, makes
heavy use of the mouse (and not to use ACME) and doesn't use Gentoo. I also find
his lack of anime wallpapers disturbing.
I think a big thing people ignore when they make the Fight Club reference is that the story of Fight Club is really act 1 of the story of Mr. Robot. It isn't really trying to be different there. They even acknowledge that by their obvious references to Fight Club. However, Mr. Robot is a spiritual sequel. It asks the questions what is next after you wipe out everyone's debt. How does the world react to that, how do the banks react to that, how does Tyler Durden react to that, etc?
The show is also fully aware that the underling motives behind the hack are immature. That is why in the 2nd season they show that the world is worse off than before. Freeing people from debt didn't solve everyone's problems. It shows that F Society is really a bunch of childish vandals who got in over their heads. I mean they literally have them cutting off the balls of the bull statue on Wall Street. They aren't meant to be flawless heroes that we are supposed to 100% agree with.
> Main character uses GNOME, codes in Python/Ruby, makes heavy use of the mouse (and not to use ACME) and doesn't use Gentoo. I also find his lack of anime wallpapers disturbing.
> - And the worst of all: Main character uses GNOME, codes in Python/Ruby, makes heavy use of the mouse (and not to use ACME) and doesn't use Gentoo. I also find his lack of anime wallpapers disturbing.
In season two he is seen using Vim and then Leafpad. I think the character uses whatever is at his disposal.
Oh and I used Gentoo years ago (like 2003) and stopped using it because of the whole recompile the world. I don't think recompiling everything is the best option when so much of hacking is about speed and timing.
I'm not qualified enough to speak on this conclusively, but I believe the Ruby coding he did was using an actual social engineering tool. Also, he uses Kali Linux.
FWIW what the shows creators have to say about that:
> I actually wanted the audience to be a little ahead of Elliot on that. And we were telegraphing it intentionally, to the point that people thought it was a misdirect.
That said I was somewhat irritated when I realized that the twist, along with the main plot arc were lifted from the same movie, which is also referenced almost explicitly in a couple of episodes.
If it is the twist I think it is that twist is purposely obvious (I hope your not thinking your smarter than the show because of that). I mean that twist happens fairly early.
S02 has far more truly hidden twists.
I mean even in Ex Machina I had some rough idea of what was going to happen in the end but that doesn't make it a bad movie.
There were some very strong hints about the twist in S01, I'm pretty sure we were meant to know. The S02 "twist" was much less obvious though IMHO. Despite reading theories about it on reddit before the reveal, I still didn't quite believe them.
It was supposed to be obvious, I think. Dramatic irony. Elliott even calls you (the viewer) out on it in the first episode of season 2. He says he doesn't trust you anymore because you didn't tell him something you knew. I love how they handled it with the cheeky nod
But it's a sideshow, the show even plays the same music as a homage. To me what makes it tolerable is that it accepts the twist as a matter of course and jumps right into other interesting plots, including whatever the fuck is going to happen tonight.
I understand it was a homage. It just didn't make sense to do it as the main twist.
I mean, if you're making a movie about an island zoo of dinosaurs, it's OK to pay homage to Jurassic Park using dialogue or the composition of a specific scene. But if the main plot of your movie turns out to be about dinosaurs escaping their zoo... well, that becomes a bit too much, in my opinion.
We'll have to see after tonight's episode, in which the episode seems likely to break in such a way that makes the first season twist look weak in comparison. I'm eager to see how the writing goes, but I'm afraid I'm going to be disappointed as I was with how BSG went off the rails.
IIRC, Elliot at one point acknowledges that the viewer already knew what was coming. But the twist is Season 2 is much, much harder to spot. Reminded me of Life of Pi.
Me too. For two reasons. One: the main character---very interesting character development not to mention a superb actor. Two: the visual aesthetic---very distinct, very artistic, and absolutely beautiful.
Its a decent and sometimes good show but certainly not one of the greats, and has more than a few major flaws. I'll try to minimize spoilers.
1. The plotline is pretty much Fight Club with computers and telegraphs this early on. This is clearly not on purpose as we see hints dropped all the time and the reveal is given with such a flourish. Lets stop defending Esmail here. The reveal is really hamfisted and the show borrows VERY generously from Fight Club, for better or worse.
2. The twists are largely unpredictable. Sure you can argue that some clues were dropped beforehand, but they're so ambiguous as to be meaningless. Anything can happen on that show and to me, that's lazy writing. The universe that show lives in should have a rational set of rules that govern it. Its basic world-building. If the finale involves aliens or time travel, it woudn't surprise anyone, in fact /r/mrrobot is full of people expecting this. Anything should not be possible, especially when you're 30+ hours in.
3. The pacing isn't very good and gets especially bad in season 2. I don't think we needed several episodes dedicated to Elliot being in [spoilers] or other events that look stretched out to fill episodes. This is a common issue in TV, and I'll let it slide, but the first few episodes of S2 are like pulling teeth and turns off viewers. I know people that quit watching during this period. Its a hard sell to say "Look there's about 10 hours of nothing, but it kinda picks up after an experimental episode where the characters are bizarrely on a 90s sitcom for artsy fartsy cred."
4. The content is lacking. My understanding is that Esmail and his team originally wrote a movie and pretty much retrofitted that into one season of television. Once the [big event] happens in season one, the show lost its footing. I would have loved to spend more time at Allsafe instead of jumping straight into [big event].
5. The politics and hacktivism are pretty naive, if not just stupid. Its a lot of alt-left/far-left politics and having the characters act dumbfounded and guilty when regular people lost their homes and jobs seems ridiculous. What exactly did they think would happen after [big event]? We never really get to see anyone's moviation for this, other than some throwaway comments about "evil bankers" and "evil ceos." We know Elliot has a secret motivation and master plan (of course we have no details of it), but what about Trent and Mobley and Darlene? Why are they doing this? None of them remotely seem to have the zeal of a revolutionary and very soon regret all their actions. Its like some middle class hipster kids decided to overthrow society on a whim.
6. The show has a lot geek fan service where it can alienate non-geeks. I think its possible to show hacking without getting into the weeds of it and have it be semi-authentic. I can go either way here, but it would be nice if the show was more accessible to people like my wife and her friends.
7. The exploration of mental illness seems hackneyed and, well, boring. Season 2's long strange cinematography focusing on Elliot's tortured face just doesn't make for good TV. I think this stuff works best in small doses and has been done better by almost everyone else, including season 1 of this very show! Thankfully, Esmail has moved away from this kind of thing about mid-way through S2.
8. Whiterose as an unstoppable mastermind is a cliche and she's tiresome to watch on the show. Writers please stop using the mastermind cliche and start making your characters have flaws and screw-ups. For a show that's suppose to be complex, most of the characters aren't terribly deep or anti-cliche. Its almost distasteful to play up "the Chinese are inscrutable" cliche and have almost all the Chinese characters be unstoppable, unpredictable, and near perfect robots, constantly toying with the dumb and emotional westerners. We see the Dark Army, Chinese state hackers, the CCP, etc win pretty much every engagement but the FBI is clueless and there's no NSA or CIA at work at all here.
9. Less so than Whiterose, but Price is written to be stereotypically evil. He's only missing a mustache to twirl. I wish he was a more complex character, not just a sociopathic CEO who cares about nothing but himself. This doesn't necessarily upset me considering the general low complexity of secondary characters on this show, but the actor playing Price is so good, it seems like a waste of talent for him to play a two dimensional character. Price has a lot of potential that has so far been ignored and perhaps anything humanizing him would upset the far-left politics of the show, which I find disappointing.
10. The show has slowly degenerated into Lost, where meaningless clues lead to a surprise. Fans argue on /r/mrrobot but no one is ever right because its all so damn ambigious. Or someone is right, but only by dumb luck or perhaps marketing plants. I wish the show had less of a mysterious air about it. I also don't like the marketing led approach of "Check out the finale to get the real answers you've been waiting for all season!"
I feel this show is a bit like Halt and Catch Fire. Its decent, but not very good and is constantly trying to find its footing. Like Halt, I suspect it will never really find its proper footing and will be passable geek popcorn fare with moments of brilliance. It doesn't seem to be reaching out past modest ratings. I've heard comparisons to Breaking Bad, but BB had a general appeal that Mr Robot doesn't.
That said, this is destined to live in geek fandom, which frankly has a low barrier to entry. I just wish it was a better and more accessible show. I do look forward to the shows that will be made after being inspired by this. Mr Robot 2.0 will be good. 1.0 is just too uneven and unfocused. Compare how tight Walter White's world was or the world of The Wire compared to the manic world of Mr Robot or how complex and flawed the secondary characters were on that show compared to Mr Robots'. Those are mature and very good shows. Mr Robot? Not so much.
2) The vast vast majority of twists have been predicted far in advance if they are of any significance. And frankly the ones that people missed the missed clues are dug up after the fact to show what people missed. Having problems with Mr Robot is fine, but claiming LAZY writing is lazy analysis.
3) in the short term the pacing felt weird, but as things have been revealed everything has started to fit together and see WHY it is paced the way it is.
4) This is entirely incorrect. He started writing a movie, but when he was 90 pages in (1 page = 1 minute of screentime) before he hit the end of act 1 (which was the first season of the show) he changed his intention and plotted it as a TV show after that.
5) this if fair, the characters are wildly naive.
6) Eh this can be argued both ways so can't really disagree
7) I've seen at least some people who struggle with similar issues who are impressed with how accurate Elliot seems. Others may not feel that way, but like anything else relating to people how different people experience different things means no one person can represent an entire thing.
8) She hasn't been unstoppable, though she is the most daunting character in the show other than possibly Joanna.
9) This is totally fair. He's a psychopath as was shown by his whole talk on wanting to be the most powerful person in the room.
10) What? People have CONSITANTLY been right on subreddit. Obviously bad theories are also going to show up, but the accurate ones regularly bubble to the top.
Eh, the big reveal for this season I suspected something similar before seeing the reddit thread (I was slightly off) and last season's I figured out by episode 2 w/o seeing Reddit.
Mind you aside from coding my main passion is writing so I can smell a lot of the tricks of the trade a mile away.
I agree with most of what you say, save a few things:
Re: The politics and hacktivism [...] like some middle class hipster kids decided to overthrow society on a whim.
... _yes_, I think that's the point. The mere fact that it's possible and the consequences of this is the drama.
Re: Price ... frankly I like the way he's characterized in this show. Some people have very simple motivations and this makes them very dangerous and the perfect antagonists. He's surrounded by people more nuanced or conflicted than him, which makes that interplay interesting.
How can someone so unrelenting be undermined? That's what I want to find out.
I agree. Yeah sure his motivation is simple but it is very accessible and it makes since (I still disagree with the previous poster that the show is not accessible).
If they made Price some ignorant money driven CEO (just asking to be manipulated) than White Rose would be too powerful (which the previous poster alluded to as well but then has problems with Price being just plain evil).
I'll be curious to see if Sam Esmail gives any hope/intelligence to the government(s) other than the single FBI agent.
I completely agree. I admit that I'm following season 2 because it's still an enjoyable show, but every single one of those points is valid. At times it feels like Esmail is insulting your intelligence or pandering to extreme cliches (points 8 and 9), all the while entirely ripping Fight Club off. And no, he didn't seek Fight Club for "inspiration". He utterly and completely replicated the plot, but executed it poorly. The laziness of his storytelling is clear when we can pretty much assume all of Elliot's confusion is the result of Mr. Robot intervening on his behalf. Except that mysterious intervention doesn't even appear to be attributable to a well-defined and somewhat believable circumstance (Norton's insomnia in Fight Club). Instead, Elliot has some odd lapse in memory, and what do you know, some unthinkable event has occurred.
It's an entertaining show, but only in the same sense as corny superhero movies. Esmail has been trying to wrangle a sensible plot with an interesting premise, but unfortunately he's not as skilled as his execution implies.
I suspect that at a certain age shows like Fight Club or Mr Robot are deep and edgy, but when you've been around the block a bit the world is less black and white and a lot more grey. I hate to play the ageist card here, I really do, but teen or 20 something me would be over the moon for Mr Robot. Modern me, not so much. The whole "we must crush The Man(TM) and only then will we have utopia" is just too much to swallow, even if the show flirts occasionally with criticizing that message, but that is the take-away if you remotely relate to any of the protagonists. If anything, a rational look at this show makes Elliot look like the dangerous psychopath that he is and the "bad guys" are the ones trying to make sure everyone keeps their jobs and homes.
I also think the whole Chinese domination against a weak and emotional West is a tired cliche, the same way the 80s had Japanese domination over a weak and emotional west in fiction. Mr Robot could be our Rising Sun (1993), where it will seem ridiculous, baiting, and pandering to future viewers.
I somewhat agree but Season 2 certainly introduces more "grey".
I keep seeing comments that the show is not accessible (e.g. previous poster " I just wish it was a better and more accessible show.") but then comments that it is pandering to the audience by being unoriginal with tropes.
I would argue in large part to be "accessible" aka relevant to many is to be contextual of the current times and slightly unoriginal.
China right now is hacking the US. This is widely known. What other entity should be picked? You could go ultra scifi and go with aliens but I would imagine that would make the show fairly targeted to inaccessible (scifi has historical had a tough time in prime time).
I admit the whole evil company / sticking to the man motive is overdone but that is sort of inline with the hacking we have seen (which is what the article sort of delves into).
I'm not so sure. From my perspective The Wire had a lot of Freshman psychology, philosophy, and civics mixed in with pauses where characters would stare at one another and let silence pass between them.
Mr. Robot is clearly a mature show to a subset of an audience; Rami Malek even won an Emmy, this year. Perhaps you are not hearing the music. In that case, I hope you do. : )
The funny thing is if it didn't even involve hacking I would still consider my favorite show. The psychodrama existentialism of the show is so good. The plot is so damn good. The acting is so damn good.
Th music, the timing of title screen and the font used. I love it all.