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Granted, current GUI toolkits are huge. On the other hand, I have worked with Qt, and this convinced me most of the complexity there was a blend of avoidable bloat and a long tail of features few people ever use (a bit like offices suites).

I'm pretty sure properly written GUI toolkits can be much smaller. As in, satisfying 90% of our needs in a couple thousand lines of code. (The remaining 10% might require heaps and heaps of code, but I'm sure it doesn't have to affect the core.)

It's only an intuition at this point (I have yet to implement my own GUI toolkit). But I have reasons to believe this intuition is right: http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2012001_steps.pdf




Well, I guess I ought to put this in here, rather than rewrite it :) : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12410471

The "long tail" is like the long tail of Excel or Word; yeah, everybody only uses 5% of it but everybody uses a different 5%.


    I'm pretty sure properly written GUI toolkits can be much smaller...
Given that as far as I know, there are no examples of tiny fully-featured GUI libraries (it's all either trivial like cgui or a massive bloated mammoth like qt/wpf/android), isn't that a bit of a rich statement?

Like, I'm sure you can write a procedural generator in a handful of lines of code that spits out the full works of Shakespeare. It's probably possible, if you have the right seed and the right algorithm.

...but practically speaking, how do you actually build one?

The same goes for UI libraries; certainly it should be possible (in theory) to have a minimal beautiful GUI libraries with an excellent API; but every attempt to build one seems to have failed.

Perhaps the problem domain is actually more difficult than you're giving it credit for...


vpri.org managed to squeeze a GUI toolkit and a document format and the whole compiler toolchain required for the language (including rasterization) in about 20K lines of code, and it's fast enough to run in a laptop.

I'm pretty sure we haven't explored the sheer depth of simplifications that can still be done.


Sounds cool. Got a link?

I can't find anything on their website that seems to be that sort of thing?


I doubt that you'll find much.. They didn't release the code of their "crown jevel" (Frank, the 'word processor'), which makes me quite unimpressed about these year of research where the main result is a bunch of papers and demos but (nearly no) code (except for the OMeta part).


I believe they did release the source code, not far from here: http://vpri.org/fonc_wiki/index.php?title=Installation_Guide (may be outdated, you may want to ask the FONC mailing list, may not work on your machine… it's a proof of concept anyway, not a hardened engineering artefact).

Their writing is here: http://vpri.org/html/writings.php

Their various reports are there (most recent first):

http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2012001_steps.pdf

http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf

http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2010004_steps10.pdf

http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2009016_steps09.pdf

http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2008004_steps08.pdf

http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2007008_steps.pdf


Maybe the word processor is there, maybe it isn't, there isn't much documentation, I've asked the FONC mailing list..


It's certainly a tricky endeavor, but not impossible:

- http://www.fltk.org/index.php - https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano

Then again most gui libraries end up including networking, file handling, etc...




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