You're asking for the left picture, others are asking for the right picture.
As for how the world would respond... some would laugh, some would get mad. But that would be like if you walked into some poor rural town afflicted by unemployment and held up a sign that said "I make over $100k working a tech job in San Francisco. Every spare bit of change helps."
Some would laugh, others would want to punch your face.
I understand that picture very well. Thanks for bringing it up.
I really think equality of opportunity should exist beyond social lines like gender, race, disabilities etc.
But equality of outcome? Why? Why should everyone have equal outcome? What is the reward for hard work then? Why be a good person if being a bad one will bring the same outcome?
When everyone starts with the same opportunities, the hardworker, smartworker, dedicated, persistent deserves more than the lazy, douchebag, not dedicated, not doing something themselves and always wanting others to do things for them. Don't you agree?
I agree that equal outcome is undesirable. But if you truly had equal opportunity for something universally desired, let's say higher education, you would expect to see in your freshman class across all colleges a distribution matching the general population in all these factors, like gender/race/disabilities, and I would add wealth too.
But when we look at these distributions we see some under represented, and some over represented. That seems to imply that there wasn't equal opportunity, or there's different desirability among the groups (e.g. maybe 90% of very tall people would rather play NBA basketball than go to college).
> Why would you expect this? The mean IQ of black Americans is a standard deviation below that of Asians
Kind of agree here - but (and I'm saying this as someone who scores well in th IQ system and hold a well paid, technical job):
* why is it like this? I have nothing to back it up but I have a strong hunch that this difference might at least be partially attributed to something else than biology. I don't say "white oppression in 2016" but I fear that part of it is "learned helplessness" from centuries gone.
* why is it that university should be the best option for everyone (and that includes me)? Some of the very best techies I have worked with have gone the route of assistant technician-> technician -> add maths, physics, economy etc (because now they are motivated for it) -> fantastic boss, pm, technical lead etc.
the point of "ask a female engineer" or "ask a male nurse" is that these are "minority groups" in those respective contexts and have distinct life experiences and insights as a result.
> So if one can have "Ask a female athlete", why not "Ask a male athlete".
you seem stuck on the "can have" bit, which isn't really the point.
As a male who enjoys company of other males (not sexually), I have not found it boring at all. Mixed groups have definitely been socially better but I'd pick male mentoring forums any day.
Boring isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I think of male-spaces. More like brotherhood, mentorship and competition.
I see. Don't name it that way then. It just annoys people and make it sound like you can only ask questions about being a male engineer which is kind of uneventful it seems.
Truth to be told I know there are women that enjoy hanging around in almost all-male groups as well because they find it more relaxed. Possibly wouldn't have believed if one of them hadn't told me though.
Please don't compare nurse, a rather low desired job, and engineering, a rather desired job. If you want to make a comparison, I would pick psychiatrist or veterinarian which both has similar desirability and technical requirements as engineering. Both also have a much worse gender equality ratios that engineering, with a trend going from bad to worse.
"Ask a male psychiatrist" would be a interesting idea to push for more gender equality, except that A), males with mental health issues (which such channel would be associated with) are generally treated as the lowest on the cultural pecking order, B) male psychiatrist is basically becoming a extinct concept.
Not an American also, as my view is based on the Swedish work market and culture.
When I say nurse is a less desired job, I mean that in the number of student applications and average grade requirements. That is not to say that nurse profession is an unattractive job. It just that all professions are not equally desired, and statistics on student choice and student competition reflects that.
Btw, nurse profession in Sweden is commonly 3 years, which is common for hands on professions like welders, plumbers, painters, musicians, carpenters and so on. Engineering is commonly 4 years, similar to veterinarian. Its the difference between master degree and bachelor's degree.
I do not think its a major leap that professions with master degree requirements is generally considered to be more desired, has generally a higher pay rate, and is generally fought over more harshly. As such, comparing two professions with master degree requirements makes more sense.
In Norway next to Sweden, nurse is three years "høgskole" after three years "videregående". Same goes for engineer (except "sivilingeniør" which is another two years on top of that).
Welder or carpenter is two years of "videregående" and then 2 (or more?) years as apprentice.
So
Nurse or engineer: 6 years study.
Welder, carpenter etc: 2 years study + 2 years as apprentice.
Civil, which stands for civilian, is in contrast with the other form of engineer which is military engineer.
Maybe you are thinking of technician and not engineer. That is 4 years in Sweden, with 2 additional years to make it to technician specialist or civil engineer within a specialist area.
Engineer, medical doctors and specialists: 6 years or higher.
Nurse, technicians, plumbers, and the vast majority of professions covered under higher education: 4 years.
"yrekshögskola (YH)": 2 years or less.
The title of this discussion is "ask a female engineer", not "ask a female technician". My initial statement stands that we should compare master degree professions with other master degree professions, and bachelor's degree professions with other bachelor's degree professions. Further more, looking for similar educational requirements within each group would further narrow down suitable professions to compare.
For some reason I know a bit about Norwegian education and engineering degrees especially. ;-)
The degree I'm talking about is the Norwegian "høgskoleingeniør" which typically gives you a Bachelors degree, "sivilingeniør" is typically a Masters study. The nurse study also gives you a Bachelors degree in Norway (and can be used as a foundation for the midwife study which typically gives a masters degree as well IIRC.)
That is more comparable, i.e.: both are perfectly normal, but both are not too common for historical and possibly other reasons.