Scorpio is also more powerful, however it looks like they are trying to pull an Xbox 360 on microsoft and launch something good enough but earlier.
Neither Scorpio nor PS4 pro would actually do 4K gaming, they will however most likely will have no issues of doing true 1080p gaming at 60fps which is considerably better than either of the consoles can pull off as well as maybe a few 1st party / indie titles at 4K.
I don't actually think the UHD BluRay is going to be an issue, BluRay sales aren't exactly have been great in general and considering that UHD BluRay movies tend to cost about double I don't see the sales being that great.
Streaming 4K however should be considerably more important as Netflix and the likes are getting more and more UHD content you would want your console to be able to catch up.
Project Scorpio will, the PS4 Pro won't support 4K gaming either, even a GTX 1080 won't do 4K @ 60 well with modern titles.
The PS4 Pro will be a 1080p @ 60 console but nothing more regardless of how they are marketing it, the GPU it has is between the RX460 and the 470 in terms of performance and while they can push for 1080p @ 60 on medium/high settings* on most modern titles they can't run anything at 4K at playable framerates, not even "console experience" frame rates.
*New upscaling techniques like UbiSoft's Checkerboard Rendering with decent Temporal AA/EQAA will be able to upscale some games with minimal image quality loss.
UbiSoft renders Rainbow Six: Siege at 960x1080 and upscales it to 1080p.
And the Xbox One and PS4 have been shown playing games at 1080 during their launch events so what?
The amount of games that are doing 1080p on either console is slim, they render often at sub 900p (especially on the Xbox One) resolutions with FPS locks to 30.
When the Xbox Scorpio was announced which is still more powerful than the PS4 Pro most developers said they'll use the extra power to run the games at 1080p with higher settings than aim at 4K gaming.
They will end up doing upscaling of some sort, they have gotten pretty good at it but true 4K pffttt dream on.
I agree that Xbox one doesn't have many 1080p games however how does it follow that ps4 does not? Except for few games like AC, which decided to keep parity, pretty much all ps4 games are 1080p.
Yes, DigitalFoundry (they aren't 100% correct all the time, especially when developers introduce a new technique for example when Ubisoft revealed that they are rendering at 960x1080 and upscaling but to their defense the upscale was so good that even their tools did not notice it) and a few other websites constantly do actual frame by frame analysis, many games on the PS4 run at 900p especially the competitive titles that need a lock to 60.
Beyond that letterboxing and resolution scaling is still common, while the PS4 doesn't drop to 720p like the XboxOne does it does do a lot of 900p titles or 30fps locked titles (which on many it can still fail to live upto the 30fps lock).
Even some exclusive titles which usually run on 1080p on their respective console to not do 1080p on the PS4 KillZone and Uncharted 4 both run at 900p.
But overall it doesn't matter the 720p + TAA & Vsync on the XboxOne a lot of times produces better frame times than the 800-900p PS4 versions, some of the COD games and Titanfall were pretty good examples of that where the PS4 running at 1080p or close to it had major issues with frame timing.
What I would suggest is that if you care for 4K gaming buy a PC, consoles aren't going to get there, even the new Titan X can drop below 60fps on 4K on some titles ;)
Overall I wonder more about the CPU upgrades than the GPU, both the XboxOne and the PS4 have started to hit the CPU bottleneck hard fairly quickly and games which are CPU intensive like open world games, racing games and sim suffered.
There are not that many 60fps games, so saying that those are sometimes not full 1080p is a far cry from the original claim that number of 1080p games is slim.
PS.PS4 Titanfall? Can we seriously continue the discussion of hardware merits when you casually mention problems with games, which don't even exist?
Titanfall 2 it's in MP beta for quite some time now ;)
Usually on the PS4 it's either 1080p or 60fps take your pick, but more demanding FPS titles like Battlefield 4, Battlefront and the rest usually do 900p on the PS4 =)
If you consider 1080p @ 30 to be "true 1080p" then you are set, but for the many people if it's not running at 60 it might as well not run at all.
> Titanfall 2 it's in MP beta for quite some time now ;)
Either way you are complaining about a game, which has not been released.
>Usually on the PS4 it's either 1080p or 60fps take your pick
Yes. And there are not many 60 fps games so most games are 1080p.
> but for the many people if it's not running at 60 it might as well not run at all
Which is a valid point you probably should have disclosed before saying that there are no 4k and 1080p games, because much more people don't really care about 60 fps.
>Which is a valid point you probably should have disclosed before saying that there are no 4k and 1080p games, because much more people don't really care about 60 fps.
Because it's true, and most people and most games to care about frame rates, even Sony admitted that most games won't run at true 4K but will use upscaling.
"For all you pixel-counters out there, note that the games Sony showed yesterday don't seem to be rendered in "native" 4K. While the Pro system is capable of outputting full-resolution 4K images and games, it's not really powerful enough to do so while rendering the kinds of realistic 3D worlds with the level of detail we've come to expect from big-budget games."
"While some retro-styled 2D or low-polygon 3D games might be able to produce a full 3840 x 2160 frame buffer at least 30 times a second, most games will run internally at a lower resolution. Sony says that the Pro will make use of an internal rendering pipeline and techniques that help fill in those missing pixels on the display. Insomniac CTO Al Hastings said the difference between "native" 4K and the PS4 Pro's output should be "nearly indistinguishable.""
The hardware of the PS4pro is less suitable to true 4K gaming than the PS4 is for 1080p, you are going to see major upscaling but it's ok, we're gotten pretty good at it.
For the most part I expect most games to render at 1920x2160 or 1440x1620 and be upscaled.
>Because it's true, and most people and most games to care about frame rates
If it's been true then 30fps games like GTA, AC, Elder Scrolls series, GT, RE, FF etc, etc had not been selling crazy millions of units.
And yes, not all 4k games are rendering everything into a single 4k buffer, modern games are a bit more complicated than what was around in 90s. It's silly to complain about this IMHO, because 4k movies also don't have 8M full pixels for every frame either.
>And yes, not all 4k games are rendering everything into a single 4k buffer.
Games haven't been using a single buffer for ages, however games on the PC do render at a native resolution or higher (if you use render target supersampling).
Console games render at sub-display buffer resolutions all the time and use upscaling, which is what I was saying from the first post I don't even know what you are are arguing about.
The point is that calling either PS4pro or Xbox Scorpio a 4K gaming system is misleading at best, because as far as the frame resolution target they are going to be considerably more off from 4K than their current counterparts are from 1080p.
>If it's been true then 30fps games like GTA, AC, Elder Scrolls series, GT, RE, FF etc, etc had not been selling crazy millions of units.
GTA5 had major FPS issues on both consoles it was one of the major complaints, AC has major issues on both consoles, etc. Those games sell like crazy because they are huge franchises it doesn't mean the experience is good.
FPS games understand that they need 60fps and they stick to that often by drastically reducing the render target, because otherwise they are near unplayable even on consoles that already suffer from a pretty big input delay.
But sure if you accept <30 fps gaming with major screen tearing and frame time inconsistencies as a decent experience all the power to you, but let's call it what it is the minimal functional experience that these consoles can provide, it ain't a very pleasant one.
I guess there is nothing left than to wait till November. If you're right people won't be buying the new PS4, since you can just hook up a regular one to a 4k TV for upscaling.
The regular one can't output a 4K signal at all since it doesn't support HDMI 2.0, and it can't really run games at 1080p not to mention upscale them to 4K.
And people would buy whatever they would be sold on so it doesn't matter, Sony and Microsoft managed to sell their current line of console as a good 1080p experience, since there isn't a better alternative other than a gaming PC people buy what there is doesn't make it any more true.
I understand you haven't seen a PS4 but want to talk about it. It's quite common. But there is really no excuse for talking bs about TVs. Any digital TV upscales to its native resolution no matter the input. There is no other way to show content without black bars. Go to Best Buy or Costco or any place they sell TV, they will educate you and demonstrate how it works.
I understand that you are utterly clueless about about how upscaling in games actually works, what is checkerboard rendering, temporal super resolution, multi-resolution shading/rendering, etc.
What you are talking about is simple pixel doubling / stretching the image I am talking about actual upscaling.
The XboxOne and the PS4 do not support HDMI 2.0 and do not output a 4K signal, a TV can stretch the 1080p signal using pixel doubling but that has nothing to do with the console and it would create pretty terrible aliasing as well as other artifacts.
You may now resume being a clueless condescending troll.
They said that the 4k is achieved via upscaling. There's basically interpolation on 1080p with the additional pixels to create a nice visual. So it helps with aliasing issues and gives a crisp look, but neither console is capable of actually rendering in 4k.
