Watching the live debate in the House I'm really surprised the Republicans have let the most radical finge of their party control the debate on health care. I'm not sure that strategy is going to work politically. A big majority of people are for some form of health care reform we just disagree about the details. I don't think it was wise to create a situation where health care reform as a concept is being demonized. They should have offered a strong alternative and spent their time talking its merits up instead of talking out theories of Soviet take overs. It seems like satire more than serious opposition at this point.
> A big majority of people are for some form of health care reform we just disagree about the details.
How many of them are willing to pay more for someone else's health care? That's important because that's what's happening.
Estimates of medicare fraud range from $150B/year up. The "low overhead" folks never mention that. Instead, they rant about "insurance company profits", which are less than $10B/year. Govt healthcare fraud is only going to get worse.
Oh, but you think that the insurance companies are going to save you? Why?
However, I can't be too upset because it's a huge transfer of money to my generation. Yay Boomers!
I know at least 5 people that are extremely upset about the 3.8% percent increase on capital gains tax. However, none of them make over $200k a year. Why are so many people emotionally charged about something that has no impact on their life?
The few who make $200k have to keep feeding lies and propaganda to lots of stupid idiots who will never make $200k so they can do their bidding for them. So they can go to "Tea Parties" and town hall meetings and foam at the mouth against (or for) a bill they haven't even read.
It is completely baffling me that people who would benefit most from a public options are against it. I understand why Donald Trump or any other billionaire would be against, but why are people on the verge of poverty, who are rabidly opposed to free health-care.
I tip my hat to Lippmann and Bernays. Propaganda can really create wonders (or horrors depending on which side you are on).
What is most scary about America (at least to me personally) is the amount of of people that are so easy to control and manipulate.
It's 2700 pages long, prior to maybe been amended by the Senate in reconciliation.
There will be plain English explanations forthcoming now that there's final stuff that's been voted on (what happens with reconciliation is TBD), but they'll necessarily be long. And it'll take a while to come up with them.
But don't worry, this issue will now suck most of the nation's political oxygen for this year and probably through 2013 and perhaps beyond. You'll be hearing all about it.
For now, I'd recommend checking out Keith Hennessey's blog, he's pretty good at this sort of thing: http://keithhennessey.com/
"The new costs, according to the budget office, would be more than offset by savings in Medicare and by new taxes and fees, including a tax on high-cost employer-sponsored health plans and a tax on the investment income of the most affluent Americans."
I have a friend who works in a tech company that is going to lay off people and move their jobs overseas once this bill passes. I have another friend who runs a medium-size business, who will stop offering corporate health insurance in lieu of salary raises. This bill is gonna cost 2-5X what they say, and is gonna bankrupt small/medium companies.
That's real patriotic of him. By the way, wage arbitrage is old hat, if he was really hip to the scene he would have done that years ago.
Care to backup your claim that the bill will cost 2 to 5 times more? I can read xlsx format.
Also never mind the fact the bill covers 30 million more people, ends insurance caps on care, lowers per capita costs, and rids the hideous practice of denying care because of preexisting conditions.
The only set back in this bill is that we never got a Public Option, but we will get it, if it takes another 3 or 10 years, we will get insurance coverage that finally covers every single citizen in the United States.
What most people have is employer insured employee health. If you lose your job, you're out. It makes as much sense to insure the health of your employees as it does to insure corporate vehicles, but employers don't think of it that way.
The corollary to that is that if you are 'too sick' then a reason to fire or lay you off will be found. So, in those terms, "if you have anything serious like cancer, then you don't really have health insurance".
If this bill fails to meet expectations expect it to be used as a red herring for why government run health care can't work in the US. That will set back true health care reform by 10 to 20 years.
Once they took the public option out. I stopped following. Yes, the foaming at the mouth Tea Baggers already won. This will be a flaming red herring for generations to come. Expect lobbyist, PR firm workers and paid town hall agitators everywhere to get nice bonuses at the end of the year.
- Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.
- Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
- Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
- A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
In 2011:
- Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.
- An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.
In 2013:
- The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.
- A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.
In 2014:
- State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.
- Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Health-care tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
- Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
- Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
- Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.
In 2018:
- An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.
I've heard (hearsay) that this bill will squeeze the private insurers to unprofitability in a few years. If true, that would be a strong way to get us to the public option.
Too late. Health insurance companies have just increased their premiums by at least 20%. And the bill hasn't passed yet. 0ur company will start taking salary pay cuts starting next month based on this.
> This bill is gonna cost 2-5X what they say, and is gonna bankrupt small/medium companies.
The health insurance companies raised the premiums even without the bill passing. Blame them. Don't blame the bill. If they can't stay solvent, then fuck them, let them be taken over by the government just like the banks, or even better let them go bankrupt. As inefficient as the government is, at least voters can have some control over the government, as of now voters have not control over the health insurance companies.
If other countries can provide better health care, at lower total cost, with better coverage and have better over-wall health and life expectancy, so can we. So far, this whole health bill debacle has demonstrated 2 things to me: 1) our legal system is corrupt and 2) a large swath of our people are brainwashed and easily controlled by fear and propaganda. 2) is the expected result of a declining and failing education system.
I think I should clarify; I meant the bill is going to cost 2-5X the $940 billion for the healthcare proposal. Why? Because our government is handling it.
In other words, you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim and you're making up absurd extremist claims to scare us. This isn't Fox News, and the audience on HN is not generally susceptible to these kinds of low-grade scare tactics.
Sounds a lot like the people who said they would move to Canada if George W Bush won. It's one thing to make threats like this, it's another thing completely to follow through with them.
No surprise there. As long as health care is tied to employment it gives any business an immense amount of control over their employee's lives and well being. No better way to keep your workers in line. They do not want that power taken away.
"will stop offering corporate health insurance in lieu of salary raises"
Which is a tax increase, moving tax free compensation to taxable.
As for those Medicare "savings", being disabled and on Medicare I'm watching them closely. E.g. the annual "doc fix" (every year since 1997), which if not renewed at the beginning of next month will cut the already low Medicare payments to doctors by 21%. Which they can't afford, nor can Congresscritters who'd like to avoid Rostenkowski's fate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qre7DzEtxyc). That's 208 billion "savings in Medicare".
