Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

I'm not at all defending these peoples opinions - just pointing out the unwarranted hatred they attract as a result of having an idea that is not mainstream/not supported by establishment politics.

The speed and ease with which someones' mental health is called into question is just as alarming and .. frankly .. disturbing, as the idea that we are not subjects of the States in which we dwell. "That person is mentally ill" is the clarion call of establishment doublethink, and I put anyone who uses it as a means of justifying their bigotry against anti-establishment thought in the same bin as the loonies who think they can change their name to get out of a parking ticket ..

Alas, its quite acceptable behaviour to call into question someones mental health if they propose an idea non-mainstream/aligned with establishment ideals. I think this, in itself, is a more destructive social response which, unfortunately, doesn't require expensive billboards to propagate throughout society ..




It's not establishment double-think, and that claim itself is rather silly. I'm quite sympathetic to claims that we're too quick to dismiss people with mental illness, but when it comes to people living their lives in harmful ways based on delusions (which is common in the sovereign citizen movement), I'm all in for calling it mental illness, or something like that. People can believe whatever nutty things they want, I say, but once they put themselves (or loved ones, or whatever) in harm's way based on those beliefs, and don't change them when consequently harmed, well, what else do you want to call it? Delusional stupidity?


Can you think of any other marginalized folks whose ideas you don't like who might be considered valid targets for your "mentally ill" label, and therefore not worthy of any further attention?

Might these folks be minorities, or under-represented segments of society, who nevertheless have as much of a right to their opinion as you do?

There is nothing here that demonstrates these people are harming themselves. Do you have such evidence? In a free society, people are free to be stupid and live their lives according to how they see it. People are free to interpret the law, personally and socially, however they wish. This doesn't mean they need to be classified as "ill" by all and sundry, for the sake of a few differences of opinion. Or .. does it?

You know who else was good at calling 'unsavory elements' mentally ill for the sake of social isolation? Stalin.


What? The sovereign citizen movement is full of people who get arrested, imprisoned, get their stuff impounded.

I don't think you really have any idea who you're trying to defend as "differently normal" here. This is a movement that tells its adherents, "repeat these legal incantations, and you get out of speeding tickets or paying property taxes". And its adherents actually try that nonsense out, and invariably go to jail or whatever. (Occasionally they end up in shoot-outs with cops, and end up dead.) Delusion? Check. Self-harm? Check.

I really suspect you just haven't heard or read anything about these folks. I think you're barking up the wrong tree in this case, buddy.


They're only 'self-harming' because they're a minority, and they stay a minority because people write off their opinion as "mentally insane". If more people were attracted to their movement, the State would change and there would be less harm - such is the way of all collective movements.

Its kind of like, the Quakers were 'insane' in the eyes of many, too. But look how that turned out.

Anyway, I see you don't care for my point, which is this: you can't just call people you don't agree with "mentally ill" and think this doesn't make you a bigot.


Well, they're self-harming because they're breaking the law and trying to avoid punishment with nonsensical incantations based on a bunch of actual nonsense.

Maybe you want to take the stance that there is no such thing as mental illness (there is), or that the term is bigoted (it isn't), or that I'm a bigot for thinking these people need help (I'm not, and they do), and in that case, go nuts, you're certainly free to do so!

But this just isn't a situation where I'm trying to disparage people by calling them mentally ill. I just wish they'd stop hurting themselves (and their families, and occasionally others, like the cops they occasionally end up in shootouts with; and also enriching the few who lead this scam) by buying into this delusion and breaking the law (in such eminently avoidable ways! like registering their car or buying car insurance!) and suffering the consequences, but it is, after all, a mostly free country.

You might do well, too, to reflect on why you feel so strongly about this stuff.




Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: