Chrome books are the best college laptops for the vast majority of students. The ability to have a ton of apps and then have the Microsoft suite on an App could really over come a few hiccups which is normally based on professors' issue of only using Word.
THE ONE ISSUE is Printing. I have to help my daughter setting up cloud printing all the time
> Chrome books are the best college laptops for the vast majority of students.
If they're not the best laptop for everybody outside of college, then they're not the best laptop for college students IMO. I wouldn't want my kids learning on something that next to nobody uses.
- How are graphics arts students supposed to learn how to use Photoshop, Illustrator and other programs that professionals actually use in the real world?
- How are CS students supposed to learn how to use the plethora of tools that don't run in ChromeOS?
- How are business students supposed to learn how to use the full Office suite, which most of the rest of the world is using on Windows or even OS X?
The "ton" of apps is kind of a moot point since Windows and Mac both also have a ton of apps.
I don't get your other point - you want to avoid issues with Word by using the "Microsoft suite on an App" (which presumably includes Word)?
> THE ONE ISSUE is Printing.
There is way more than just that one issue I think, if we're going to be completely objective here.
I find Chromebooks are increasingly good for a lot of things but, no, I doubt they're ideal for a lot of college students. (Pre-college is a somewhat different matter, especially if there's a family computer they can use for those applications that aren't accessible through a Chromebook.)
With things like Google Docs, Chromebooks are pretty powerful. I often travel with one rather than a laptop these days. But many college students are likely to run into situations where they need apps that aren't available for a Chromebook and, especially so long as Chromebooks aren't the norm, that's likely to be a problem.
I used a Chromebook as my only laptop for my last 2 years at UC Berkeley. I did all my note-taking in Google's Docs stuff. For my CS course work, I used the excellent Chrome SSH app [1] to remote into department machines. Chrome SSH is so good that I now use it on all my Windows machines instead of PuTTY!
The only thing I couldn't use my Chromebook for was for design-related activities -- running Illustrator or Photoshop to make posters or t-shirts and the like. I ended up setting up Guacamole [2] on my home network, so I could remote to my desktop windows box to use Illustrator on-the-go.
Why? Learning how to use apps like photoshop is a good skill to have. Plus the knowledge easily translates well to other apps/mediums. Is like learning how to use an IDE and then switching to another one. At lot of the basic concepts stay the same.
Sure, lots of skills are good to have. Not at hundreds of dollars a class, though, and certainly not worth associating with a bachelor's degree. Otherwise my peers would all have degrees in Eclipse and be unemployed right now.
What a strange statement. Do you understand that for a student in graphic design or industrial design, knowing the theory is as important as knowning InDesign or AutoCAD right ? Do you understand that while you can get away with coding in a cloud IDE if you are a student in CS, some disciplines rely also on learning specific softwares which will not run on your ChromeOS computer? Or your goal is just to defend ChromeOS at all cost even with ridiculous arguments? No ChromeOS isn't the best computer for students in all disciplines.
Are these labs free? At the same time you don't have lectures? Are these computers actually up to date? Oh, you need to run this tool with it that requires local admin? Oh, the last guy had local admin and screwed something up?
Graphic Design or Industrial Design departments shouldn't be teaching how to use specific proprietary programs. The principles of those disciplines can be used in any of the numerous tools out there, and the real skills of a designer are transferable.
> Graphic Design or Industrial Design departments shouldn't be teaching how to use specific proprietary programs. The principles of those disciplines can be used in any of the numerous tools out there, and the real skills of a designer are transferable.
It's as idiotic as saying that future surgeons should only learn medicine theory on Chrome books. Do you not get that Graphic Design or Industrial Design departments should teach whatever is needed so that students get a job in these domains at the end of college ? Do you not get that students often have to build projects in professional conditions using professional tools ? Do you not get that you don't replace most professional tools in these domains by cheap web based knock offs ? So you clearly don't get why selling ChromeOS books to these students is wasting their money.
In theory, however the alternatives are very limited in comparison. Things like CMYK support are pretty vital when doing prepress work, but have been deemed low priority by developers of programs like GIMP. So in order to learn a huge amount of the workflow, they'd end up needing to use a program like photoshop anyways.
Um sure that single digit students who are in design they need more tools or a number of other majors. MOST students don't need to know inDesign or Photoshop or anything else.
> Um sure that single digit students who are in design they need more tools or a number of other majors. MOST students don't need to know inDesign or Photoshop or anything else.
Says who ? Did you major in Graphic Design ? no you didn't.
> Says who? Did you major in Graphic Design ? no you didn't.
I am confused are you saying I am wrong and students in Design don't need more then a Chromebook? Or they Don't Need Photoshop or in design? Or did you not read what I said when some students need more for example Design students?
Once again there are some instances for people in design for example who need more. So the MAJORITY would need more MOST don't.
If you are in engineering, computer graphics and are working on school projects I would expect people to use these tools to make their life easier. I'm not really sure what you are objecting to.
>How are graphics arts students supposed to learn how to use Photoshop, Illustrator and other programs that professionals actually use in the real world?
Are people really PAYING to learn photoshop? Waste of money.
>How are CS students supposed to learn how to use the plethora of tools that don't run in ChromeOS?
The same way they learn to use the tools that don't run on Windows or OS X. In my experience if you go to a good college Windows is discouraged for CS in favor of Unix and professors are knowledgeable of Unix and it's limitations when it comes to running Microsoft only software. In fact for every class that I took that required some windows tool (very few) we were encouraged to use the windows machines in the computer lab. I never used anything on my laptop but Linux the whole time I was getting my degree.
I don't use chrome OS so I don't know how unixy it is though
>How are business students supposed to learn how to use the full Office suite
If you need to take a college course to learn word processing you're probably not going to be very good at running a business.
Word processors and photoshop do not require college classes to learn. They should just be a part of local community colleges that allow people to earn certificates for using office software.
> if you go to a good college Windows is discouraged for CS in favor of Unix
You realize students in architecture or graphic design don't care about your petty OS war right? and you're statement is completely false. I went to a good college and I learned both server administration on Unix and Windows.
> Are people really PAYING to learn photoshop? Waste of money.
People are paying for an education that will get them a job, if the industry mandates the use of Photoshop for a specific professional task it's in the interest of a student to learn it. And obviously you don't know Photoshop, like at all or you wouldn't say the things you're say.
> Word processors and photoshop do not require college classes to learn. They should just be a part of local community colleges that allow people to earn certificates for using office software.
You realize there is a world between learning a word processor and Photoshop for a pro usage ? no you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't say such ignorant thing.
The problem is that you are a programmer and you think every discipline works like computer science where everything is in the cloud ... it doesn't.
What percentage of the working college graduates make a dime using Photoshop?
What "Pro" Word Processor work are you talking about? Word Processors for Type Setting is horrible and the vast majority of people OVER use Word, Excel etc...
What percentage of the working college graduates make a dime using AutoCAD ? 3DS Max ? Cinema 4D ? After Effects ? Final Cut Pro ? Avid ? Illustrator ? InDesign ? Logic ? Ableton Live ? Cubase ?
On what percentage of computers running ChromeOS can you install these softwares ? ZERO .
> Are people really PAYING to learn photoshop? Waste of money.
They're not paying to learn Photoshop. They're paying to learn to become professionals in a given field, and Photoshop/Illustrator/$PROGRAM are the tools-of-the-trade in that field. To pretend otherwise would be foolish.
As a computer scientist, it is embarrassing to admit this, but I have given up on wireless printing. My wife and I now physically walk to the printer and plug in via a USB cable.
What kind of printer? In my experience, networked printing is almost always much easier than USB.
I've had really good luck with Brother and Ricoh printers. From regular computers, network printing works very well (from Windows, Mac, and Linux), and their Android apps are also quite good (though they don't support the native Android printing subsystem, so I have to "share" files to them).
It is probably not the printer, but the fact that we switched to Suddenlink for Internet service and all of our laptops except for my two Linux laptops stopped working wirelessly with the printer.
Anyway, my wife is OK with physically connecting to the printer and I almost never need a hard copy.
I find that Windows machines wont "discover" my Canon printer like OSX+Bonjour does, so if the IP address changes you have to delete and reinstall it. :/
Might be OP's problem?
Have you installed the Windows bonjour client from Apple?
I was recently trying to print from Windows inside virtualbox on my Mac to a wireless Canon printer. After installing bonjour, Windows found and install the drivers for the Canon but when I "printed" to it only a blank page would come out. Sigh, so close.
That would explain why the machine with iTunes works. Windows isn't my daily driver anymore but I'll definitely try that! Yeah Canon printers always seem to work after installing the monolithic Canon drivers, but tbh it just feels wrong.
Yeah that issue was when I was using the ISP-provided gateway combo. I'm running a PF box right now and it hasn't been reassigned in months. But yeah assigning a static ip would fix it. It's just annoying when its a family member who doesn't know that can be done.
Same here, also, I never run the printer itself wirelessly, always wired, with a static IP. Rarely have issues... now printing over the internet to my home printer sometimes hiccups... whats worse is when friends print to you, and you've become their default, and suddenly you have a 150pg document printing from nowhere... that they didn't mean to send to you.
Printers supporting the good ol' JetDirect protocol, where you simply fling bytes @ port 9100, almost always work easy-peasy. It can't get easier than Postscript or PCL printers, where you can print by cat file.ps | nc -w 1 192.168.0.100 9100. It's pretty hard to screw that up.
Printers using that INSANELY over complicated Web Services for Devices (WSD) seem to have a huge footprint on Windows PCs, are resource intensive, require extra running services on the PC, seem to have a hard time with multiple instances of the printer on the same network, etc.
FWIW, you can screw it up pretty easily when you don't own your own router (it comes from your ISP), and it has some sort of subnet isolation thing going on.
This workflow always made more sense to me. Until they figure out a way to wirelessly deliver the printed page from the printer to my hand, I'm going to have to haul my ass over to the printer anyway.
Maybe a printer that can fold and launch paper airplanes....
So true. Printing, copying technology seems so out of date and stone age like compared to other consumer electronics. Why cant I jsut print something off my iphone on any generic printer ? Why do printers come up with so much junkware ? Why are the prices of ink so damn expensive ?
I think Apple, MS or someone else must come up with a good printer and kill rest of the printer industry.
Printers are crap because most people don't need to print much, so most printers that are sold are basically the equivalent of the shaving stick that's sold only to enable the sales of replacement razor blades (ink cartridges).
Ink is expensive because again: Most people don't print much, and most people have printers that that have some very specific ink cartridge and will blindly buy the manufacturer brand ink because it's easier that way.
If you print much, pay for a reasonable laser printer, and your experience and cost per page are both much better.
I've found that the only way to get network printing to work reliably is to buy a generic postscript printer and use an old linux machine (perhaps a raspberry pi) as a dedicated print server. I used to recommend that people buy enterprise gear, but lately I've had mixed results even with those - the printer in my office needs to be rebooted daily. Whatever you do, stay far away from consumer-grade networked printers. Half the time they won't even implement CUPS/IPP or LPD, they tunnel USB over ethernet and use the same shitty USB drivers that an intern wrote in 1997. Best to avoid printers altogether, really.
This. All my problems went away when I bought a Brother laser printer, and connected my Raspberry Pi to it running CUPS. No issues with discovery on Mac/Windows/Linux.
My solution has been DDWRT on my router, acting as a print server with the printer plugged into it. It has worked great, and never have issues like I did before when the printer was plugged into the computer. It always just works.
I also have a CS degree and gave up wireless printing in favor of USB printing at home. Wireless printing proved unreliable over many attempts. USB printing works reliably every time. We have to walk to over the printer anyway to get the printed documents out. Taking the laptop with us is hardly much more effort.
I try get my family members to use USB printer over wireless when possible as well. Wireless printing is more prone to failure, as chan happen when a wireless device changes IP, SSID or password.
I'm glad it's not just me! I've tried so often! I've moved to just-postscript emulation, and then every multicast-dns trick I can think of. I generally blame cups.
There is API now for printers [1]. There is HP driver for example, that probably uses that [2]. And it seems that someone made up driver for Brother AIOs.
I've tried to stay the hell away from printers (and their myriad issues) for about a decade, and I feel that my life is better for it. I use the printer at work for the 6 pages per year I need printed.
I understand this situation might (will?) change, since I'm a single young childless guy.
Finally changed for us a few months ago after about 8 years of being happily printer-free. One too many trips to FedEx to print 2 pages of something, can't even remember what it was - probably a Groupon for a cash-only store that would only accept it in print. Also I really wanted a sheet-feed scanner so I can electronically archive the stacks of paper piling up around the house. We got an HP OfficeJet Pro 8625 and have been pretty happy with it on Linux, Windows 10 and Mac.
> a sheet-feed scanner so I can electronically archive the stacks of paper
That's the most 1995 thing I've read all year.
What with all the smartphone apps which will provide you with PDFs of the casually snapped pics of whatever paper pieces you feel like shooting.
(In the unlikely case the gummint doesn't already have all the info you may need, and you can't just ask for a copy. Which is mostly the case nowadays.)
Lol true :) the main reason is when I have a big stack of paper that I want to trash but I'm not sure if any of it will be relevant down the road. It's a pain to go through each page and snap a picture, with a sheet feed scanner I just set it on there and push a button. The most relevant example I can think of is hospital bills - we had a baby last year and my wife was also in the hospital for an unrelated surgery for a few days, and all of the bills come on paper mail. It's nice to trash the paper and still have the record.
Or better yet, of a stack of paper. If you can find me that I'll gladly pay for it. Well, at least up to the around half the cost of the sheet-feed scanner/printer.
At college printing was the norm- there are a lot of assorted articles assigned as readings, they are PDFs generated by a student worker and a copy machine, and reading them on a screen borders on physically painful because you can't reflow the text. Just printing out hundreds of pages really was the best option so far as I could tell.
USB flash drives work well. Charging cables work well. HDMI sometimes works well. WiFi (nowadays) sometimes works well. Chromecast sometimes works well.
Printing is (at best) in the "sometimes works well" basket.
Printing, like Wifi is entirely dependent on the devices you buy.
Buy a decent print server and a decent wifi AP (or a decent device that does both).
When I had a real job, HP were the print server to beat for us (a ~30 campus state-wide educational department). Now (in a home-office setup) I use an Airport Express with a Canon inkjet.
Maybe your experience is with Windows based network printing without a corporate network? I'm sure that probably sucks donkey balls, but honestly that's just another issue with the tools you choose. Choose a shitty print server or a shitty OS and you can expect to get shit.
Get a printer that supports Google Cloud Print. It's awesome! It ties a Networked printer that supports it to a Google account and then you can print from anywhere as long as you're signed into your Google account in Chrome. You can even share the printer with others!
>> "Chrome books are the best college laptops for the vast majority of students."
How are they better than Windows or Mac laptops which don't have issues you've mentioned (printing/lack of MS Office)? They may be 'good enough' for a lot of students but they are certainly not the best.
They are good until you need to run real software, like your prof's favorite little simulation software, written in Java, that happily works on Linux and Windows... but not ChromeOS.
THE ONE ISSUE is Printing. I have to help my daughter setting up cloud printing all the time