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I'm not saying Erlang isn't great, but if you need to pass a large datastructure around between Erlang processes then copy message passing starts to be a lot and you need to share memory. You can do it in Erlang, but I'd hardly call it great, and you're avoiding the sync primitive that Erlang offers.



How about Rust's “share by transferring ownership”?

(0) In the general case, whatever object you give to a third party, you don't own anymore. And the type checker enforces this.

(1) Unless the object's type supports shallow copying, in which case, you get to keep a usable copy after the move.

(2) If the object's type doesn't support shallow copying, but supports deep cloning, you can also keep a copy [well, clone], but only if you explicitly request it.

This ensures that communication is always safe, and never more expensive than it needs to be.

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Sorry, I can't post a proper reply because I'm “submitting too fast”, so I'll reply here...

The solution consists of multiple steps:

(0) Wrap the resource in a RWLock [read-write lock: http://doc.rust-lang.org/std/sync/struct.RwLock.html], which can be either locked by multiple readers or by a single writer.

(1) The RWLock itself can't be cloned, so wrap it in an Arc [atomically reference-counted pointer: http://doc.rust-lang.org/std/sync/struct.Arc.html], which can be cloned.

(2) Clone and send to as many parties as you wish.

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I still can't post a proper reply, so...

Rust's ownership and borrowing system is precisely what makes RWLock and Arc work correctly.


What if you want multiple readers at once, and a writer thrown in once in a while?

Edit:

Okay, my point was that the sync primitives of most languages alone can't save you and you're using RWLock in your example, so clearly ownership by itself doesn't solve everything, right? That's the point I'm trying to make.

Edit2:

Hmm, I'll have to check that out. I don't know that I would call Rust's ownership model super easy to reason about, but it is nice that the compiler prevents you from doing so much stupid $#^&.


> Okay, my point was that the sync primitives of most languages alone can't save you and you're using RWLock in your example, so clearly ownership by itself doesn't solve everything, right?

The thing is that Rust ensures that you take the locks properly. It's an compile-time error to forget to take the lock or to forget to release the lock†. You can't access the guarded data without doing that.

† For lock release, it's technically possible to hold onto a lock forever by intentionally creating cycles and leaking, but you really have to go out of your way to do so and it never happens in practice.


> Hmm, I'll have to check that out. I don't know that I would call Rust's ownership model super easy to reason about, but it is nice that the compiler prevents you from doing so much stupid $#^&.

It's much better get compile time errors than deal with very hard to reproduce data races.


Only, as usual, in situations when all else is equal.

By the way, on a related note, data races themselves are easier to reproduce than the visible negative consequences of those races on the execution of that program. That's the basis of tools like the "Helgrind" tool in Valgrind. That is to say, we can determine that some data is being accessed without a consistently held lock even when that access is working fine by dumb luck. We don't need an accident to prove that racing was going on, in other words. :)


> By the way, on a related note, data races themselves are easier to reproduce than the visible negative consequences of those races on the execution of that program.

Perhaps, but a data race by itself isn't sufficiently loud to catch my attention (no idea about yours), unless it consistently has visible consequences during debugging - preferably not too long after the data race itself takes place.

> That is to say, we can [emphasis mine] determine that some data is being accessed without a consistently held lock even when that access is working fine by dumb luck.

By “we”, do you mean human beings or computers? And, by “can”, do you mean “in theory” or “in practice”? Also, “only when we're lucky” or “reliably”?

> We don't need an accident to prove that racing was going on, in other words.

What I want to prove is the opposite - that there are no races going on.


Erlang lifts sufficiently large binaries into refs, which isn't perfect but pragmatically helps a lot with that problem.




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