This is ridiculous. The waiter pretended not to know English just because a tourist said 'hello' instead of 'Bonjour'? WTF?
An example of a waiter being an ass. And I think a very good example continuing the theme of the original post.
I see absolutely no reason to say 'hello' in language X if I'm going to proceed speaking English. I'm trying to communicate, not to impress with my language knowledge. This just doesn't make sense. Hello is a greeting like any other, and it is accepted all over the world, except France that is.
Your feelings are exactly why the waiter behaved as he did. Day after day of dealing with people with attitudes like this would sour anybody who couldn't even be bothered to put forth the effort to say "hello" in the local language, which requires about as much effort as drinking a cup of coffee.
My experience indicates exactly the opposite. As a rule of thumb, at least in Europe, friendly chill people are thrilled that you're trying to speak their language, and grumpy impatient people interrupt your plodding attempts and insist on talking to you in English. If you think the person you're talking to might be sympathetic and willing to indulge you, even encourage you, then by all means address them in the local language. If you're worried about annoying someone who is busy and working, speak English.
Normally, I would politely and somewhat apologetically ask them if they speak English first, but if you're a waiter in certain kinds of places in Paris, you really can't pretend that you might not speak English, or that your customers might not know you speak English. C'mon.
I would actually feel sorry for any waiter trying to take my order in French. I mean, what if he can't afford to spend five minutes listening to me butcher the language, but he's too polite to ask me to stop?
> My experience indicates exactly the opposite. As a rule of thumb, at least in Europe, friendly chill people are thrilled that you're trying to speak their language, and grumpy impatient people interrupt your plodding attempts and insist on talking to you in English.
We can feel free to disagree I suppose. But I haven't experienced any of this in the 20 or so countries I've been in. In almost everyplace I've been, opening in my obviously American accented equivalent of the local "hello" then proceeding in English (even if they mistakenly think I can speak local), seems to work very well. Following up with the local "please", "thank you" and "good bye" also works pretty well.
Not being a douche, eating all the local food put in front of me, and being polite and deferential to my local hosts -- even if they are wait staff -- works wonders. And I've been to some pretty hostile places. In some cases, stuffing my self-entitled American give-it-to-me-now-and-speak-English-while-doing-it attitude down my own throat opened tons of doors even across vast cultural and linguistic differences.
In almost everyplace I've been, opening in my obviously American accented equivalent of the local "hello" then proceeding in English (even if they mistakenly think I can speak local), seems to work very well.
Which is no different from what I suggested, except that you mentioned saying "hello" in the local language and I mentioned asking if they speak English instead of presuming. Both good ideas, I think, unless you're in a situation where presuming is justified.
And I've been to some pretty hostile places. In some cases, stuffing my self-entitled American give-it-to-me-now-and-speak-English-while-doing-it attitude down my own throat opened tons of doors even across vast cultural and linguistic differences.
Well, that's a lot of external baggage you've imposed on the discussion. Since we were taking the time to discuss what polite behavior actually is in various situations, it would seem that we're already taking your "not being a douche" point for granted. And really, thinking in terms of your own attitude is not really the right way to do it, whether your attitude is "I'm an American and entitled to speak English anywhere" or "I'm quite proud of not being a self-entitled douche, and pardon me while I demonstrate that fact using this charming gentleman from the audience, I mean, the native culture." Aren't you supposed to think about what behavior will make the other person feel comfortable and respected, instead of thinking about what behavior would best reflect an admirable attitude on your part?
And you know, there are a couple of reasons why deference and humility are a pretty good universal pass to foreign cultures. It's not because they reflect a virtuous attitude, and it's not because they're polite behavior in all circumstances. First, the people you might offend or discomfort by that kind of behavior are generally not in a position to make any trouble for you. Second, lack of regard for social rank is part of the popular image of Americans (at least the positive popular image of Americans,) so people tend to understand inappropriately equal behavior as a reflection of Americanness instead of intentional rudeness. It turns out understanding and tolerance go both ways.
> And really, thinking in terms of your own attitude is not really the right way to do it, whether your attitude is "I'm an American and entitled to speak English anywhere" or "I'm quite proud of not being a self-entitled douche, and pardon me while I demonstrate that fact using this charming gentleman from the audience, I mean, the native culture." Aren't you supposed to think about what behavior will make the other person feel comfortable and respected, instead of thinking about what behavior would best reflect an admirable attitude on your part?
I'm not sure I understand how being polite, and being self-aware of your own actions are mutually exclusive?
> Second, lack of regard for social rank is part of the popular image of Americans (at least the positive popular image of Americans,) so people tend to understand inappropriately equal behavior as a reflection of Americanness instead of intentional rudeness. It turns out understanding and tolerance go both ways.
I can agree with this whole heartedly. Even in places with dense collections of small ceremonies acting as the marker of social politeness (say Japan for sake of argument), making an effort does not necessarily equal being polite from their perspective, since you may not be acting in a way congruent with the local concepts of politeness (where to put your chopsticks, how low to bow, etc.) But I've found most people understand that, though you are an outsider, you're at least making an effort, which is generally appreciated.
Usually, if you spend enough time there, you'll get helpful pointers from people who want to help you be polite. They wouldn't bother with this if they didn't see that you were at least attempting -- i.e. politeness is important to you, so it's worth their time and effort to tutor you.
It's not about the effort of saying "hello". If you don't know the language, it's reasonable not to try and begin a conversation in it -- what do you do when they reply with a rush of words you don't understand?
What they should have done was learned "Parlez-vous Anglais?"
> what do you do when they reply with a rush of words you don't understand?
It's not that hard...in fact I'd go so far as to say that it's so easy it's a non-issue. Just start pointing and speaking in very simple English after the introduction and unless they have an IQ that fluctuates with the ambient temperature, they'll get the picture. More importantly they'll at least appreciate you gave the old "being polite" a shot and be more inclined to help. Opening with English, like you expect them to serve you in your language, which just feeds into the popular global view of Americans and native English speakers, very rarely works.
Even if you expect help in English, it's how you package it up that matters. Rolling in, appearing that you are expecting to be helped in English makes people less inclined to help you. Bookending your interaction in "local", with "thank you" and other politeness as you can interspersed throughout packages up your expectations in a polite bow.
If you still get treated rudely even after you demonstrate that you are willing to try and meet them halfway in the interaction...it's likely just a rude person.
I wish that more of my countrymen and fellow native English speakers understood this type of basic politeness.
you reply back with "je suis desole mais je ne parlais pas beaucoups de francais" which translates to something like "I'm sorry but I don't speak very much french" (it's been about 10 years since the last time that I spoke any french with any regularity, so my phrasing may not be 100% correct.)
If you do want to continue in french, you can also throw in a "lentement, s'il vous plait" which means "slowly, please."
I know a guy whose father from South America visited our company. He greeted everyone with "Hola, Hola" and nobody had a problem with it. So, I agree with you.
An example of a waiter being an ass. And I think a very good example continuing the theme of the original post.
I see absolutely no reason to say 'hello' in language X if I'm going to proceed speaking English. I'm trying to communicate, not to impress with my language knowledge. This just doesn't make sense. Hello is a greeting like any other, and it is accepted all over the world, except France that is.