You had someone be rude to you because you know how to fix a car?
As you said, that's a far easier skill to learn than say programming. However, I have never encountered such an attitude and have lived on both coasts. I think people greatly appreciate skilled mechanics, tradesmen, etc. all over the country. The best can usually charge a premium. That's no different on the coasts.
I doubt this will be a popular opinion: Frankly, I think belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application. Maybe it doesn't affect how you think about the world and how you think about solutions to problems but it could. Maybe you're prone to believing in unsupported theories because you've trained your brain to do so in your private life? Maybe you press on with an idea when you shouldn't. Maybe that will effect your business decisions?
I'm not an atheist. I just think it's an interesting question. I grew up with a lot of Mormons who metaphorically drowned the parts of their brain that were curious about the world. The sad part was that they were required to in order to fit into their community and maintain good familial relations. A lot of them struggled with it and still do. I say it's sad because they could have achieved and contributed a lot more to the world. Now most of them are salesmen, which is a skill they learned on their missions.
I think about this often. As humans, our brains look for social signals for shortcuts (read Robert Cialdini). Do people use religious belief as a shortcut? Do they do so subconsciously? I've never asked someone about their religious beliefs in an interview but if they mentioned it, would I subconsciously reach a different conclusion? Would I be less willing to trust that they have good, objective business sense? Would I want someone who believes in the bible literally as an engineer? What about as a salesman? Maybe for marketing? Does it aid creative thinking or impair it?
> Frankly, I think belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application
If you apply this fairly, it would exclude a lot of people. For example, I meet a lot of people folks here on HN that believe in "human rights" or "natural rights" that don't arise out of legal documents. But if you cut someone open, you can't find any "natural rights" in there, nor has anyone provided experimental evidence characterizing the physics of "natural rights."
Yup. These same people find these rights somehow engraved in their minds (from education in the civic religion and other socialization) and consider them to be eternal and obvious truths, which were nevertheless somehow not apparent to anyone for approximately two million years of human history, which is full of people murdering, raping, and enslaving without the slightest consideration that it might be violating people's rights.
I don't mean to pick on them, but just to strengthen your point: almost all of us believe in something supernatural (which doesn't make it any more real, of course.) But what really characterizes people who believe in something supernatural is they believe that thing is natural. Devout Christians do, of course, believe that God transcends nature, having created it, but God is for them an entirely 'natural' thing, a perfectly obvious and eternal truth that everybody should just know, you'd think, an inalienable part of the natural world.
This kind of fundamental belief, or axiom, or cognitive bias, or whatever you want to call it, is very difficult for most people to really identify and understand in themselves.
Now you have me trying to identify and understand a supernatural belief that I might hold without realizing it.
I don't believe in god or natural rights, so examples raised so far are out.
Maybe markets. I believe that forces like supply and demand are fundamental and essential in all sorts of human interactions. But maybe that's just because I can't transcend some sort of deeply engrained thinking.
A) Scientists believing in the supernatural should not be hired.
This statement could be correct or not.
B) supernatural events can not be explained with the laws of physics. There is not any experimental evidence of any supernatural event.
This is true.
C) "natural rights" can not be explained with the laws of physics. There is not any experimental evidence of any "natural right" inside a human body. If you cut someone open you can't find any "natural rights" in there.
This seems true, but is false in fact *
D) Thus, we conclude that people believing in natural rights should not be hired.
Not. This is a fallacy because C is not related at all with neither A, nor B. Thus your example can not teach us about if A is false. Is not a proof of anything.
To suggest that people "believe" in a paper with something written on it is equivalent to people "believe" in god is wrong. You can sacrifice a chicken and them put its corpse in a fridge, but you are not trying to make the fridge happier or less angry. Is not a god. Fridges, as laws, are just created by humans to improve the life inside human societies. A law is just a pact, a paper with something written on it its origin and creation can be explained perfectly without to breaking any natural rule. Laws can seem esotheric, but this is not remotely equivalent to such thing as "a supernatural event".
* Yes, C is false. If you cut someone open that believe in natural rights you could find some copies of those "natural rights" of course, as chemical traces saved in the cells that hold the memory and culture of this people. At least for a while.
> belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application.
People tend to have separate approaches towards things they believe are well defined vs things they know require faith.
Here's an alternative view point: Take someone who believes in ghosts, they may believe a ghost exists and is quite capable of grabbing them a beer from the fridge, but I doubt that does mean they sit around waiting for it to happen. They may even ask, but in the mean time they will go get their own beer. So I, as an employer, know can rely on that person to get the job done while at the same time that person may discover new rewarding approaches because they are open minded enough to try out-of-the-box ideas. On the other hand I can also always hire a scientific minded person to do the job, but it's less likely they will find opportunity to disrupt anything.
IMHO I think having a mixed group is the best way to go.
I think there are good reasons for these laws. If it is legal to discriminate in employment against religious minorities, that can contribute to their disconnection from broader society, which could promote radicalisation and similar problems. You also have to consider that there are many countries where religious discrimination is official government policy - how easy is it for an open atheist to get a job in Saudi Arabia? - and for Western countries to prohibit religious discrimination is a good way of sending a message about it at the global level (whether or not anyone in places like Saudi Arabia are listening.)
> I doubt this will be a popular opinion: Frankly, I think belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application. Maybe it doesn't affect how you think about the world and how you think about solutions to problems but it could. Maybe you're prone to believing in unsupported theories because you've trained your brain to do so in your private life? Maybe you press on with an idea when you shouldn't. Maybe that will effect your business decisions?
As a Libertarian, I wouldn't deny you your right to hire whom you please for whatever reasons.
As a Leader, if you were applying to me for that job, I would take the position of "As long as your code works well and you're willing to work hard, you can go home and worship a flaming bag of dog shit and dance naked around it listening to David Bowie for all the fucks I give about it, just please don't show me pictures." and I would mean it.
Depends on the circles that you travel in. There are many folks who look down upon any "dirty" work.
It's a pretty common attitude among folks brought up in upper middle class people who end up in professional or other high end jobs. It's a Nouveau riche thing.
As far as heavy religious people are concerned, I've learned in general to not judge and let people demonstrate the capability.
One of the most brilliant guys that I ever met was a ultra-orthodox Hasidic dude. He lived by a strict code, but had an amazing discipline, work ethic and creative problem solving approach. He had great technical ability, but also had a unique way of connecting with people and working out complex people problems.
As you said, that's a far easier skill to learn than say programming. However, I have never encountered such an attitude and have lived on both coasts. I think people greatly appreciate skilled mechanics, tradesmen, etc. all over the country. The best can usually charge a premium. That's no different on the coasts.
I doubt this will be a popular opinion: Frankly, I think belief in the supernatural should be screenable in an employment application. Maybe it doesn't affect how you think about the world and how you think about solutions to problems but it could. Maybe you're prone to believing in unsupported theories because you've trained your brain to do so in your private life? Maybe you press on with an idea when you shouldn't. Maybe that will effect your business decisions?
I'm not an atheist. I just think it's an interesting question. I grew up with a lot of Mormons who metaphorically drowned the parts of their brain that were curious about the world. The sad part was that they were required to in order to fit into their community and maintain good familial relations. A lot of them struggled with it and still do. I say it's sad because they could have achieved and contributed a lot more to the world. Now most of them are salesmen, which is a skill they learned on their missions.
I think about this often. As humans, our brains look for social signals for shortcuts (read Robert Cialdini). Do people use religious belief as a shortcut? Do they do so subconsciously? I've never asked someone about their religious beliefs in an interview but if they mentioned it, would I subconsciously reach a different conclusion? Would I be less willing to trust that they have good, objective business sense? Would I want someone who believes in the bible literally as an engineer? What about as a salesman? Maybe for marketing? Does it aid creative thinking or impair it?
Why would you bring up religion in an interview?