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Google Patents Needle-Free Blood Draw (uspto.gov)
155 points by e15ctr0n on Dec 6, 2015 | hide | past | favorite | 81 comments



Mewonders why Google is developing this. Sure, Google is pretty diverse, but medical technology still seems a bit out-of-scope.

Questions of corporate motivation aside, however, this will never replace the majority of blood draws. The patent claims it is only intended for small samples, so if the lab needs more than this device can reliably extract in one go, they'll do it the old-fashioned way. Additionally, there's a high likelihood of hemolysis (rupturing of red blood cells, which releases haemoglobin and the rest of the contents of the cytoplasm into the blood plasma). The patent does not appear to address that issue (perhaps I just missed it, but I saw no references), but my wife (who is an ICU/ER nurse) tells me it is problem. That also severely restricts the range of tests for which blood drawn by this method would be suitable.


Google (Alphabet) has an entire division devoted to health and biotechnology: Calico. Like most mature technology companies, they tackle a wide variety of problems well outside their core revenue business.


Two divisions, actually: Calico and Google Life Sciences (where I work). We're making all sorts of really cool stuff, like glucose sensing patches for diabetes maintenance[1], solar-powered contact-lenses[2]. Calico is focused on life extension, GLS is much more practical.

[1] http://www.mhealthnews.com/news/next-google-glucose-sensing-...

[2]http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2015/10/19/googl...


That's cool! Can you tell us why Google is putting resources into the medical area? How does this pay off in the business sense? Are Calico/Google Life Sciences profitable?


Is there any products that are being produced or is everything still being researched, tested, approved?


We bought LiftWare[1], who make the self-stabilizing utensils for Parkinson's. Everything else is in various stages of development.

[1] http://www.liftware.com/


That would make perfect sense if it's Calico behind this, but is it?


The opposite - it makes the most sense for life sciences; it would seem to dovetail well with their existing projects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Life_Sciences In particular, the contact lenses for glucose sensing, and the "disease-detecting nanoparticle platform," whatever that means. All of these have a flavor of less-invasive monitoring and diagnostics.


Yep, that's right. Andy Conrad, our CEO, says our goal is to build a medical tricorder.


Google's Sergey Brin [1] is married to 23andMe founder Anne Wojcicki [2], so there's a connection there...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Wojcicki


was married. Divorced in June.


[deleted]



Keep in mind that Google has an entire division for projects that are not necessarily tired to the core search business.

A system for blood-free draw that works reliably would fit the moonshot descriptor quite easily.


They are also working on a glucose-tracking contact lens. Continuous glucose monitoring is one of the last components of the "Artificial Pancreas" that could be employed by type 1 diabetics like me. Using the Dexcom CGM system with an insulin pump, an rpi, and Nighthawk, some actually have an artificial pancreas (skirting the FDA's approval latency). I would imagine Google sees this as a huge opportunity to affect a HUGE community with a chronic condition and demonstrate their prowess in yet another industry.


Alphabet, not Google anymore, no?


Their core advertising business


I'm actually curious about what you think your comment is adding.


I presume the most practical application of this would be glucose testing for diabetics. There are many people who would prefer not to be sticking their fingertips all the time.


I'm diabetic (T1) and would kill for an Android Wear device that logged my blood sugar level. It would be life-changing for me. Even though I can calculate (usually very accurately) what my level is based on the last measurement and what I've done and eaten since, knowing for sure and having a full log would relieve some pressure and remove any doubt I have, whilst saving my fingertips.


Yeah, if you have to test regularly then your fingertips end up hurting like hell (for a while I had to test 10+ times a day).

You also have to keep buying new needle drums/cassettes as well as glucose strips - not sure if this system cuts down on disposable parts?


They'll probably still hurt. This thingie basically shoots you with a teensy tiny bullet and then slurps the resulting blood.


I thought most people used the insulin pumps now, with the lancet for testing?


>Mewonders why Google is developing this.

Wouldn't this be part of their Calico subsidiary?


This was filed also before the re-org to Alphabet. I'd imagine that future patient filings would say Calico or Alphabet instead of Google Inc.


And questions like "why is google doing this" would seem to be one of the big reasons for the re-brand to Alphabet.


Not Calico. Google Life Sciences.


I imagine this as integrated into some kind of Android Health or Android Fitness program, capable of detecting glucose levels for diabetics, a competitor to Apple's Health app.


What about something like blood glucose measurement for diabetes? I think they wanted to do something for continuous monitoring for diabetics.


At this rate, maybe Google should just build its own country.


they want all the data


because you know this device will be online, at least indirectly.


PR


Google also has a whole bio lab developing artificial human skin. just completely normal and innocuous coder edm bro stuff. nbd.

https://www.google.com/search?q=google+human+skin


Related to the snarky comments about how this relates to Google's search/advertising business...that raises an interesting question: why isn't this filed under Alphabet Inc. rather than Google? I thought that was the purpose of having Alphabet, to be the umbrella over old-Google's old and new businesses?

edit: I can answer my own question: this was published on December 3, 2015. But it was filed May 28, 2014, which was created in 2015.


Check the file date (May 2014). This was filed before the existence of Alphabet.


Just glucose monitoring for diabetics would make this a valuable patent. The last try at noninvasive glucose monitoring did not work out very well.


This should be better classified now as Alphabet's technology. Google is just the software/advertisement side of the business.


They're probably patenting this to make sure nobody else does, and if Google's track record is any indication, they will probably make this available for free.


"Patenting it so someone else can't" is just something people say. Publishing the details of the technique would be enough to establish prior art--no need to file a patent. There is such a thing as defensive patenting, but that's more about building up a portfolio of patents in an area so that if someone sues you, you have something to counterclaim with.


> building up a portfolio of patents in an area so that if someone sues you, you have something to counterclaim with.

this is the reason i say patents have become perverse.


> Make this available for free to anyone who doesn’t sue Google, doesn’t object to patents, etc

Fixed this for you.

Legally, according to the patent license, I can’t use VP8 (Google) or react (Facebook) either, as I believe the patents, like all software patents, are invalid and should not have been granted.


> Make this available for free to anyone who doesn’t sue Google, doesn’t object to patents, etc

> Legally, according to the patent license, I can’t use VP8 (Google)

OK, let's see:

> If you or your agent or exclusive licensee institute or order or agree to the institution of patent litigation or any other patent enforcement activity against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that any of these implementations of WebM or any code incorporated within any of these implementations of WebM constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, or inducement of patent infringement, then any patent rights granted to you under this License for these implementations of WebM shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.[1]

Seems upfront to me, and nothing to do with if you sue Google over matters unrelated to VP8, believe software patents are invalid, etc etc.

It's just a modified Apache 2.0 patent license grant, so unless you object to all projects under that...?

> If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.[2]

[1] http://www.webmproject.org/license/additional/

[2] http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0


I object to all current software patents, as I consider the whole process in which they are granted to be inacceptable.

So, yes, I can not legally use any project that uses patents and only this grant.


Objecting to the concept of software patents doesn't make it illegal for you to use the software.


Except for the "if the user questions the validity of any Facebook Inc. patents, this license becomes null and void" part...


It probably means "in court" not just saying "I think software patents should not exist"


Which makes no difference to me.

If I can’t say in court "I believe the patent is invalid", then I can’t use the software.

It’s not "free" if they require you to believe their political ideas to use it.


"Validity" is a legal term of art in patents. Agreeing not to challenge the validity of the patent means, e.g., that you won't file an IPR seeking invalidation on anticipation grounds. It doesn't require you to subscribe to any set of political beliefs.


It requires that I don’t file a case questioning their validity.

And I don’t want to give up that freedom. As I am sure that I will do so.


That's totally fair. I'm just pointing out that when it says "validity" it's not encompassing the abstract question of "is the patent system valid?"


Well, if I decide to question in court the validity of software patents in general, Facebook etc have still the right to get back at me.

So, no, webm, VP8, VP9, Google’s new stuff, etc is not "free of patents", it just happens to have patents which most users don’t notice.

It’s Google’s business model in general, make it just good enough that most never notice the drawbacks.


> So, no, webm, VP8, VP9, Google’s new stuff, etc is not "free of patents", it just happens to have patents which most users don’t notice.

As I pointed out above, that isn't true except in the narrow sense of if you try to sue for the invalidity of the webm patents specifically, and then you'd lose your license to the webm patents and only the webm patents (never mind that if you tried to argue that a software patent was invalid because all software patents should be invalid the court would throw it out so fast that likely no one would notice what you did).

You can object to that narrow clause, but no one ever claimed the project was "free of patents", just that it was royalty-free and that it includes a patent license grant for any patents covering the code and format.

Moreover, as (again) I noted above, every Apache 2.0 licensed project has the same clause, so you have a lot more windmills you should be tilting at right now.


I’m more annoyed about Facebook (if you fight any patent in court that’s even related to any of theirs, you lose ALL licenses to anything they might own), but still.


You're very obviously conflating personal preference with law. What you said doesn't make any sense.

Let me give you an example: I object to high-fructose corn syrup being in Coca Cola in the US market, therefore it's illegal for me to drink Coca Cola in the US.


No. The patent license of react says "this license becomes void if the user objects to the validity of software patents, KR questions the validity of any Facebook Inc. patent". (Quoted from memory, so not guaranteed to be accurate)


> I object to all current software patents,

That's a pretty extreme and naive view. We live in a complex world and some software patents have their place.

What we need to get rid of is patent trolls, though. Without non-practicing entities, software patents would be a lot more useful.


Software patents are unnecessary, as algorithms fall under existing patents anyway.

The only acceptable patent is one that provides a specific solution to a problem, an algorithm, etc.


Nah, it's not that extreme.

It's not more extreme than some objecting to all form of eg euthanasia. (Which is a fairly mainstream view.)


What impact would this have on the already embattled Theranos?


I believe they occupy different, but slightly overlapping niches in the chain of causation. Theranos' claim to fame is a method of blood testing that requires drawing of significantly smaller amounts compared to traditional/ contemporary methods of blood testing. The claim is that Theranos' method can produce satisfactory blood test results with smaller vials of blood. Google's patent however is specifically on the means of drawing. Therefore, a medical care provider could reasonably combine Google+Theranos' methods, unless of course Theranos' method has a strictly incompatible means of drawing blood. Hopefully someone more versed can shed more light on this


So this thing is basically shooting you with a very tiny bullet? Interesting.


This company is as scatter brained as I am.


It'd be like claiming Berkshire Hathaway is scatter-brained because they're in railroads, insurance, metal working, car dealerships, newspapers and candy.

Alphabet is now a conglomerate by intentional design. Each unit is focused, in theory.


Android Wear smartwatch with automatic glucose monitoring.


I'd give anything for one of those... Those Dexcom CGM needles are scary long. =\


plus google now suggestions based on the results.


Looks like a lancet to me, I wonder how it changes the experience compared to a spring-loaded draw.


As a type-1 diabetic, to check my glucose, I have to use a spring-loaded device that pricks my finger with a needle which I then squeeze out to get a large enough sample, then pick up another device with a test strip attached where I collect the sample.

Read the last paragraph (0003) of the Background and then look at that watch device. If I could flip my wrist over, push a button, hear a hiss and 5 seconds later I can tell where my levels are, my day to day life, for the rest of my life, is made that much easier.


That particular level of automation wouldn't be the end state for the technology. Why not a wristband you wear that just does all of that itself, when it decides to, and then either tells you to eat or communicates with some other device able to change your blood chemistry?


Well, it's not. It's using pressure differentials to cause small capillaries to burst(?), causing minimal damage as possible.

I can see why Google might be interested in doing this. They're already in the smart watch market, it's only a short leap into the world of medical devices if they invent a way to continuously monitor blood sugar levels (among other metrics) for the user.


The link no longer works.



This is a publication, not a patent. The title is incorrect.


It's more interesting than, but not as amusing as, a tiny hicky-machine.


This sounds evil...


You obviously couldn't bother to read three paragraphs in to see clearly how this is not.


Yes, it is shooting you with a tiny bullet and sucking up the blood splash that results. The patent calls it a "micro-particle", 10µm to 250µm caliber. It can be "dart-shaped" or spherical. Muzzle velocity may be supersonic. The suggested material is gold particles held together with biodegradable glue, which is a neutral material for humans. Or maybe just a water droplet.

It seems they've tested this thing. On Google employees?


This is basically the same way you can get DNA into cells for gene transformation. These “bullets” better not have any DNA on them.


I'd love to know why you think this way.


This is for more relevant search results, right?


This is rather a snide comment. But yet, how much more invasive is physiological monitoring than allowing video and audio monitoring of ones home? Or ones children, via dolls?




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