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I'm scared of my own country (dustri.org)
17 points by chei0aiV on Dec 6, 2015 | hide | past | favorite | 11 comments



they are hating our freedom

Uh huh. Sure they are. It's nothing to do with the last several decades' worth of foreign policy.

(I did wonder if that was perhaps ironic or sarcastic, but in the end I decided it wasn't - I could well be wrong, though)


That's what the governments want. They want you to cower in fear from the terrorists so that they can pass any draconian law they want and the people will thank them for it. The people who aren't fearing the terrorists then fear the government because they see what the government is doing.

As you point out France is looking to change its constitution. Belgium is looking to do the same and there is even talk of passing some sort of Patriot Act style law.


I live in The Netherlands and I'm afraid of my own country for different reasons. I'm afraid of our politicians who seem to be almost exclusively EU-minded and don't seem to care much about the safety of their own citizens.

I don't think the Dutch government realises the threat of the massive muslim influx happening in Europe today. With almost no background checks happening, since the Dutch immigration office can't handle the influx.

What European countries need to do is consult and take some cues from Israel, since they've been dealing with muslim terrorism for a long while. And every time I visited Israel I felt save. At the same time I don't think Israel is a police state.

I remember, back when I was young, almost every couple of months, maybe even every month, there was some bomb exploding in Israel, killing people at marketplaces and in buses. Once Israel build the wall and increased border checks, these events happen way less often. The wall did work well to protect the citizens, no matter what some leftist people might want to say. Likewise, I do believe walls will make Europe saver.

Of course now Israel deals with stabbers, but I'm sure they figure out a solution. At the very least, they have armed citizens all over the country, ready to take countermeasures once these things happen. Here in The Netherlands we're mostly sitting ducks.


I'm not convinced with you proposal and really opposed to respond to what happened in Paris with less freedom. And Israel is absolutely not an example. Been there. Experienced the feeling of being safe everywhere because of armed guards, soldiers, security personnel everywhere. But I remember as well the feeling of being a stranger as soon as I showed that I don't speak Hebrew. Hated both feelings. And hated the many taboos. That's not a world I want to leave in.

What happens in France really concerns me, because it will influence how Europe will answer to this threat. And so far we are going in a direction of less freedom, more military, more borders, more segregation. :-(


no matter what some leftist people might want to say

This ridiculous polarised and incorrect caricature of "left" and "right" is not only ridiculous, but also damaging. You don't even live in the US, so you've no excuse. It's the rightists who want lots of foreign immigrants, because it means that businesses have lower costs of employees. No, wait, it's the leftists who cause terrorism because their policy of free-thought and individual liberty creates closed minds. No, wait, it's the rightists, because their belief in the free movement of capital causes... no, wait, leftists are in favour of... goodness me, it's almost as if reducing a complex situation, with roots going back decades, to two caricatures of political thought that only exist in the lazy media is useless.


>This ridiculous polarised and incorrect caricature of "left" and "right" is not only ridiculous, but also damaging. You don't even live in the US, so you've no excuse.

What in the world is this supposed to mean? "Left" and "right" in the political sense isn't an exclusively US concept. In fact, this isn't a US concept at all - it's French. And it doesn't mean the same thing in the US as it does in most European countries.


What in the world is this supposed to mean?

It means that then political spectrum is varied and vast, and that it's lazy and incorrect to simply take this one aspect and call it "leftist". it also means that the US has a ridiculous, caricatured view of "left and "right" that the rest of the world finds by parts both bizarre and laughable. I suspect, based on the fact that you think it's necessary to provide a quick primer on the origin of the terms, that what I'm getting at goes over your head.


As you correctly noticed, I don't live in the USA. I live in The Netherlands. Our concepts of the left and right are different than in your country. I mentioned "leftist" from my Dutch perspective.


And now you're just assuming that I don't know what "leftist" means. I don't live in the US, but you just assumed I did. Lazy, lazy, lazy. That's my point. Anyone who disagrees with the wall? They must be "leftist". Filthy filthy leftist. That's a nice easy way for me to label them and now I can disregard them because I've split the world into two groups, and obviously I'm in the good group. The rightists are pro-business and pro-labout movement, so it's the rightists who disagree with the wall. But wait, it's the rightists who are willing to give up liberties (especially someone else's) for security, so it's the rightists who want the wall.

OMG, suddenly it turns out that simply saying "leftists" want this thing and "rightists" want the opposite is so simplified that it's simply incorrect, and the world is a lot more complicated.

Start thinking for yourself.


Sometimes I wonder if you or people writing comments like you ever think of being in the shoes of someone escaping a war, and how idiotic and xenophobic your worries look like (not to mention the lack of minimal understanding of the Israel-Palestinian conflict).

Europe has a pretty good wall called the Mediterranean sea. You make it sound like coming to the Netherlands from Syria is as easy as your summer trips to your favorite sunny destination.

So stop being a total insensible person and at least let governments help people which are in desperate need, and hopefully save some lives, if you don't want anything to do with it. And if you're worrying about your personal security you can well complain about traffic, pollution, suicides and all the other causes of death which are way more likely than terrorist attacks and which also your government could help to prevent.


I think you're too naive on the nature of people. I do think refugees should be helped, especially refugees that are under the greatest of threats from Islamic governments. I'm thinking about Jews, Christians, gay people, minorities (e.g. Yezidis), children and woman.

But we need very strict screening and currently this is not happening in Europe. A Libanese minister already warned Europe that 2% of immigrants could be ISIS terrorists [0].

The first priority of our governments should be to keep their own people, the taxpayers that make the government possible in the first place, save from harm. Only then are we able to help other people.

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[0]: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/1-in-50-...




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