I've seen tons of people pointing out some non-existent error with Alanis' use of "ironic" in that song.
Most of them have this dictionary definition in mind: "the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect."
But they seem to forget the other meaning, probably because they never bothered to check the lemma in their dictionary:
"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result"
The first case is "being ironic". The second is about the inherent "irony" in certain situations.
That you never seem to find something (e.g. a beer opener) when you need it, and you chance upon it anytime you don't do is a mild example of the latter.
As is getting presented with or chancing upon "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife".
I have to argue against that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for this secondary meaning: "a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result".
The situation of "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" is not "deliberately contrary" to "what one expects". It may be contrary to what one wants...but that's not the same thing...otherwise, virtually every disappointment in life could be described as "ironic".
So finding "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" is not ironic, but frustrating. However, what would be ironic is if the narrator later realized that what she had actually needed was a spoon (because by the time she found a knife, all the steak was gone and only soup was left, perhaps)...and her frustration at finding 10,000 spoons was a fortuitous opportunity that she squandered.
>The situation of "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" is not "deliberately contrary" to "what one expects". It may be contrary to what one wants...but that's not the same thing...otherwise, virtually every disappointment in life could be described as "ironic".
If you found a couple of spoons when you searched for a knife, that would be merely frustrating ("damn, where's a knife when you need it?"). It's also close to what you'd deliberately expect ("I either find some knife, or I find some other cutlery but no knife").
Getting 10,000 of them but no fucking knife is not just frustrating but also ironic -- and outside of expectations.
It agrees to a T with:
"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result"
One would expect to either find the knife, or find a some other cutlery but no knife.
Chancing upon 10,000 cutlery items and ALL of them being spoons --just the kind you don't need-- seems both "deliberately contrary to what one expects" and "wryly amusing".
(Note that it doesn't have to BE "deliberately contrary" -- just to "seem" so, e.g. as when you feel that luck or the universe conspires against you).
There seems to be more to irony than just being unexpected. If I'm playing poker and get dealt a straight flush, I wouldn't describe that as ironic unless something about the context made that particular hand notable as well as unexpected. For example, if we'd just been discussing hand odds. The bit in the song about the guy who avoided flying his whole life to have his plane crash seems like irony to me, though.
And also let us not forget that dictionaries are not authoritative sources for word definitions of living languages, they are historical records. Words mean whatever their users intend. My favourite recent example of this is 'literally' which once meant "actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy" and has now come to also mean it's direct opposite: "in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually".
>And also let us not forget that dictionaries are not authoritative sources for word definitions of living languages, they are historical records.
>Words mean whatever their users intend.
Words mean whatever MOST users intend, sure. But that's not entirely arbitrary, and doesn't mean there's not also abuse.
E.g. there are also lots of of people who genuinely can't tell "their" from "they're". The English language isn't gonna change anytime soon to accommodate their usage of it.
>My favourite recent example of this is 'literally' which once meant "actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy" and has now come to also mean it's direct opposite: "in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually".
Yeah, that use has been included in dictionaries for a while -- and the use of "literally" to mean "virtually" goes back to even before Shakespeare.
In general modern dictionaries stay well on top of language trends. If there's a word usage that's not included yet, it's probably either a fad or too recent and constrained to deserve an entry (like "putting the p.... on the chainwax").
Another classic example, "awful" is said to originally mean "worthy of awe" back in the day...
Most of them have this dictionary definition in mind: "the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect."
But they seem to forget the other meaning, probably because they never bothered to check the lemma in their dictionary:
"a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result"
The first case is "being ironic". The second is about the inherent "irony" in certain situations.
That you never seem to find something (e.g. a beer opener) when you need it, and you chance upon it anytime you don't do is a mild example of the latter.
As is getting presented with or chancing upon "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife".