> That's a lot of assumptions and scaremongering that have nothing to do with the article.
I beg to differ. In Norway we are getting lots of "refugees" which has been safely in non-warring European countries[1], seeking asylum here, simply because its a known thing we have higher "wages" for asylum-seekers than other European countries.
It may be cold hearted, and it may not be a popular opinion, but my take on it is that these people stopped being genuine refugees 4000kilometers ago. They are now welfare-shoppers. I honestly don't see how anyone can argue anything else.
We're getting a flood of people right now, and the result is that our asylum institution can't scale to handle them all.
All historical data suggests that they will all be non-working, non-integrated people, living on government benefits for years to come, and for those who manage to become a productive part of society, they will still be less productive than regular citizens, for a multitude of reasons. Historical data also says most of them wont return, but still will have the same rights to government provided benefits, pensions, etc. Nothing personal, nothing racist, but they will be a net loss for the national economy.
All these things accounts to a massive increase in government welfare-related obligations, costs and spending. Now and in the future. Our "future budget" is already too big to handle, accounting just our regular citizens. With this flood we're facing future bankruptcy.
To avoid that means taking away future pensions. It means we stop maintaining infrastructure like roads now. It means cutting costs all over. The costs are very real.
And now Finnish people may fear that such an offer like this will land them in the same situation: That they too will become a "too sexy" target for welfare-shopping ex-refugees. It's not fearmongering. It's a very realistic scenario. I can't say I would blame them for thinking that way.
Finland already has high rate of refugees compared to Estonia or France(?). I don't think UBI changes that picture at all, as the refugees already get any money citizens would.
At very least the perverce incentive of wellfare to non-citizens should be acknowledged. But that's not politically correct at the moment.
I don't think it's good for the refugees themselves either in the long run. Their children could have been doctors, lawyers and engineers in Syria, Egypt of Turkey in 2050. Now they are destined to be third class citizens in cold and dark north.
careful, there are some hard facts (or more like hard-to-argue financial projections unless never-before-seen miracle happens), but they tend to go against common socialist sense here on HN.
I mean, I think I understand them. They are very clever, see what is wrong with this world (and there is plenty), and aim for biggest obvious culprit (be it 1% topic, evil corporations etc.) and say "if we fixed this, all will be good from now on". Well, life, economies or markets don't behave like that. People are aholes, lazy, selfish, greedy, messed up, not caring about anything but themselves.
I like solutions to problems just like the next guy, but only those who factor these basic built-in human flaws, so they can work long-term outside the paper they are written on. All other are just a hidden additional financial (and other) cost to all of us.
I beg to differ. In Norway we are getting lots of "refugees" which has been safely in non-warring European countries[1], seeking asylum here, simply because its a known thing we have higher "wages" for asylum-seekers than other European countries.
It may be cold hearted, and it may not be a popular opinion, but my take on it is that these people stopped being genuine refugees 4000kilometers ago. They are now welfare-shoppers. I honestly don't see how anyone can argue anything else.
We're getting a flood of people right now, and the result is that our asylum institution can't scale to handle them all.
All historical data suggests that they will all be non-working, non-integrated people, living on government benefits for years to come, and for those who manage to become a productive part of society, they will still be less productive than regular citizens, for a multitude of reasons. Historical data also says most of them wont return, but still will have the same rights to government provided benefits, pensions, etc. Nothing personal, nothing racist, but they will be a net loss for the national economy.
All these things accounts to a massive increase in government welfare-related obligations, costs and spending. Now and in the future. Our "future budget" is already too big to handle, accounting just our regular citizens. With this flood we're facing future bankruptcy.
To avoid that means taking away future pensions. It means we stop maintaining infrastructure like roads now. It means cutting costs all over. The costs are very real.
And now Finnish people may fear that such an offer like this will land them in the same situation: That they too will become a "too sexy" target for welfare-shopping ex-refugees. It's not fearmongering. It's a very realistic scenario. I can't say I would blame them for thinking that way.
[1] http://imgur.com/YDegTCn