Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | trixjo's commentslogin

Corn flakes yellow this morning?

I like the way jacquesm has been downvoting all of my posts.

Talk about passing judgement.


You have access to the voting log of HN?

For the record, you can not downvote posts that reply to yours.

You could not know that because you do not have enough points yet to downvote at all.


No denial has been posted.


Trolling on HN has unexpected side effects, if I were you I'd be a bit more careful.

This isn't reddit. Not by a long shot.


Hm.. seems like this is a void that could be filled if anyone is interested.


Nice point. Thanks for the constructive post.


So presumptuous.

Does anyone else have any links to web dev / entrepreneur type communities?


Search Lean startups,Startups.com is pretty friendly but it's a Q&A site. Also local meetup groups, meetup.com. Visit popular VC or Angel blogs, founders love to hang around and share ideas and experiences. AVC.com is my favorite. HN is a pretty large community so seeing the same commenter twice can take weeks.

Also learning how to ask a question is directly related to the quality of the answer.


Upvoted. Thanks for the links. Already tried a few of them.


I agree totally. +1


I agree that trending topics is no longer "trending" simply because Twitter has become "mainstream" more or less. Remember when Facebook wasn't mainstream? Now it's a spammer's dream.

So goes any well guarded secret that gets let out. It's inevitable.


please do tell. what are the "other ways"?

no other app market has the audience that Apple has

let's not even mention the Android marketplace -- it is still to nascent.

so what are the "other ways" please? do tell


what are the "other ways"?

no other app market has the audience that Apple has

So, I say, "I don't want to be a sharecropper", and you ask me where else you can be a sharecropper that treats you better.

I'm not talking about app markets, at all. I'm talking about being a software developer. As a software developer, you have damned near infinite options for making a living. And a lot of those options provide more dignity, and more money, than being Apple's bitch.

The notion that selling iPhone apps is a "gold mine" for developers is a bit like saying the lottery is a good investment strategy. Yes, some developers make a lot of money from iPhone applications. Most do not. I suspect that building products for the much wider general software market or the web market would be a much more profitable path for your efforts (at least, that's been where I've placed my bets, and where I plan to continue placing my bets in the future).


The web market works, of course; the app store is just a specific distribution channel that has its advantages over the web:

* everyone who needs to do something on their iPhone goes to search the app store even though a web app could serve their needs better

* users like the reviews and trust apple not to allow harmful apps in the store

* the app store provides an easy way to charge your users


the app store provides an easy way to charge your users

My understanding of the process of selling iPhone apps is this:

1. Pay $99 to become an "iPhone Developer"

2. Build your application, taking care not to violate any of the known rules Apple has put forth.

3. Submit your application. Wait for a response. Sometimes for a very long time.

4. Either get notification that your app has been accepted, or receive a terse note of rejection, that might explain why it has been rejected. If the former, celebrate, and maybe start making money...odds are, it'll make a few bucks a day. If it's a knockout app without competition you could make a lot of money (though iPhone apps tend to trend downward in revenue pretty dramatically after an initial spike, so you have to be thinking of your next app pretty quickly).

If you receive a rejection, however...the fun and excitement and "easy" times continue:

5. You study the rejection notice, the Apple guidelines, and random blog posts on the Internet to try to figure out what you've done wrong in your application. You make changes, and go back to step 3. Lather, rinse, repeat. Your application may never be made available in the App Store, it's up to Apple.

Optional step 6 (assuming repeated, seemingly arbitrary, rejection): You blog about your pain, and people share your woe and commiserate with you about their own difficulties with the App Store process. Maybe, if you're a big name developer or blogger, somebody from Apple takes another look at your app, and things begin again at step 3. Maybe you get ignored.

And, of course, every time you release a new version or you build a new app, you get the joy of doing it all again.

This process not only does not seem "easy" to me, it seems like the kind of tedious bureaucratic bullshit that I intentionally became an entrepreneur to avoid. Hell, I've shaped my entire life around avoiding stuff like that.

everyone who needs to do something on their iPhone goes to search the app store even though a web app could serve their needs better

So what? You're jumping through hoops to reach one particular niche market, when the world is wide and their are billions of people who don't use iPhone apps for everything. Developers being so damned eager to jump through those hoops, generally in exchange for a pittance, has just made other companies start trying to build their own fences around their own little patches of land and start their own little app stores, so developers have to become sharecroppers to reach those users. This is not a good thing. Apple is not doing developers any favors with the App Store.

users like the reviews and trust apple not to allow harmful apps in the store

So what? User trust and loyalty can be earned in many other ways. Provide a forum, an open issue/support tracker, testimonials, a clear and generous refund policy, etc. And, of course, web apps can't (generally) harm someone's machine...so, there is no "harmful" web app stigma to worry about. If you're taking someone's money in exchange for software or services, PayPal and Google Checkout provide good assurances to buyers that you aren't going to defraud them or misuse or expose their credit card details.

In short, the "advantages" you mention are all on the side of web apps, not iPhone apps. The only real advantage to the iPhone App Store is that if you want to reach iPhone users directly, it is the only way to do so. So, we probably will eventually release a couple of iPhone applications...but they will be mainly intended as marketing tools, and not expected to be a source of revenue. And, I'll probably pay someone to deal with all the BS of getting the app into the store, because I sure as heck don't want to deal with it.

Our WebKit-targeted theme, on the other hand, we worked on very early in the life of the iPhone, and consider it an extremely important part of our product. We update it regularly when new phones come out, to make sure it always works well with any WebKit based phone browser.


"... 'I'm pleased to note that a lot of people have realized that taking part in the iPhone (and other locked down mobile devices) ecosystem is sharecropping': please do tell. what are the 'other ways'? ..."

Games: In the days prior to consoles, the Web the only way you could get games was by going to the store and buying them in a box. But some smart folks worked out a way to by-pass the stores and go direct. Id software teaming up with Apogee to avoid sharecropping their product on the shelves of computer stores.

Web: When the web came along it was difficult to set up a web server, web page or forum for most in the early days. Geeky types could sidestep places like geocities for web-pages and AOL for access by getting their own machines, building their own Linux stacks connecting to ISPs and hosting their own web services.

Blog: If you don't want to be reliant on commercial services like MT or even the free ones like Wordpress there is nothing stopping you getting your own machine with a full stack of software using your own software. Dave Winer does this at http://scriping.com

You don't need to be in the system to use it. For each example I've given above users had the choice to work entirely within the restricted stack and somehow subvert it. The big problem here is while the Internet is open the telephone/wireless system is not. But if enough people. companies build systems with a workaround even this won't be as much a problem at some time in the future. In the case of the iPhone you can just as easily create a iPhone interface via open technologies and you are not locked into Apple. A combination of technology problems and mindset.



Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: