Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | thijson's commentslogin

Brazil has had a pretty active program of converting cane sugar to ethanol for a while now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Sugar cane doesn't require replanting every year either, like corn does.

Plants are actually not a good converter of solar energy to chemical energy though. They capture a few percent of it.

Solar cells are able to capture about 10 times that, a much smaller footprint.


Ethanol is quite a useful thing to have though, as a multi-season stable store of energy. We will need to synthesise it (or other synfuels and feedstocks), to fully transition away from fossil sources, and that 10x efficiency factor will be essential, as synthesis is highly energy-lossy.

> Ethanol is quite a useful thing to have though, as a multi-season stable store of energy.

Am I missing something? Ethanol is hydrophilic and hygroscopic. In concentrations used as a fuel (e.g., E85), it acts like a desiccant and spoils quickly. In a closed system this ends up with phase separation and the freed water causes engine corrosion.

I'm not sure we want people running a still or molecular sieve in their homes to deal with fixing long-term-stored ethanol.


Ethanol doesn't "spoil". It is a very stable molecule and miscible with water.

The main issue is that it has a strong affinity for water so it needs to be stored in containers that are sealed from the environment. The same issue exists with the ubiquitous ethanol/gasoline blends.


The cheap thin-walled gas containers you find in the auto parts store or on Amazon sell a heck of a lot better than the good stuff.

This just doesn't meet up with the day to day reality of your average consumer.

Even your gas station underground tanks aren't airtight. The problem is that the air around us has tons of water vapor in it.


> In concentrations used as a fuel (e.g., E85), it acts like a desiccant and spoils quickly

Citation needed. (hint you won't find one because it isn't true). Be careful here - this myth has been repeated enough that a search will find plenty of claims that don't check out.

High concentration alcohol doesn't spoil. Even lower concentrations don't spoil, but they mix with poor quality gas that does spoil. Well when you get very low it will, but alcohol is poison to living things and so it won't spoil. (I'm not sure how ethanol stands up to UV - but we generally keep it in a tank so that isn't an issue)

Ethanol will absorb water, but it doesn't take it out of the air anymore than anything else.


nah, it loves to absorb water out of the ambient air.

ethanol that is distilled forms an azeotrope has a hard time getting past 98% on its own. even if you used advanced techniques and additives, it has a strongly hygroscopic nature, meaning it actively attracts and absorbs water vapor directly from the air.

in other words, it will do everything it can to get back to 98%.

to keep ethanol above 98%, you need airtight seals or "molecular sieves" (zeolite beads) inside the tank to constantly "bead up" and trap any incoming water molecules.


What is the conversion efficiency for electricity + C02 + H20 -> ethanol/hydrocarbons?

Because that is the overall path (for long-term storable chemical energy, i.e. usable for transport or seasonal energy storage in countries where solar is highly seasonal).


There's an alternative path that removes carbon from the cycle:

electricity + H20 + N2 -> NH3 + O2

Ammonia can be liquified and stored similar to Propane, it does attack copper and brass.

It can be burned in an internal combustion engine, it's about half as energy dense as hydrocarbons though.

There's a danger to humans from it though, it requires sprinkler systems if there is ever a leak.

I think that a large part of the energy budget in a plant is harvesting and concentrating CO2 from the air. N2 is a lot more abundant in the air.

There is work currently on using giant sodium batteries in these large container ships. That might be more cost effective than the above longer term.


Yeah, concentrating CO2 from atmospheric concentrations is not easy. The benefit is that it actually removes carbon from the atmosphere. Whether it can ever be done on a large scale is a question, though.

Is there any work on doing that, at a low energy cost? (I mean concentrating CO2, not removing it by weathering rocks?)

Yeah, ships are not really weight constrained, unlike airplanes, really cheap sodium batteries should be feasible.


I understand that caning leaves lifetime scars, at least the type I heard about. It's not something you can put weight on for a while.

This is not that kind of caning, it's basically a harder form of slapping kids, not the one they give criminals that breaks the skin.

It depends. For some, yes. For most, no.

Not that I support caning by random teachers; this happens a lot of developing countries. A random teacher becomes the judge, the jury, and the executioner.

A caning punishment with proper investigation from proper authority seems like a good middle ground. Bullies should be punished. We cannot just brush it off as "they are just kids".


For minors, caning is with half-inch cane, which is the only one available in supermarkets. Only judicial caning is with the inch cane.

It's a matter of degree.

Life time physical or emotional scarring would, to pull out an example, be US slavery degree.

I grew up when corporeal punishment was a thing in schools. No physical or emotional scars.

Wish this is extended to white collar crimes.


I think that's why people gravitate towards friendly dogs. Dogs have no deception in their intent, and they communicate it physically well before you reach them.

Animals in general are much more honest than people. They might sometimes engage in minor deceptions (although I sometimes wonder how much of that is projection based on our perceptions of their intentions), but they always make it clear where you stand with them. An animal will never pretend to like you to your face if they actually don't. Obviously it can be useful for humans to be able to deceive like this (e.g. maintaining cordial professional relationships with coworkers who you might never choose to spend time with if you didn't work with them), but as someone who struggles to read social cues and gain confidence about what people actually think of me, it can get exhausting.

I learned it on QNX too, Burroughs ICON computer with a watcom compiler. Those computers too need to be preserved. If anyone has software for them, please upload to archive.org

It's possible to navigate around the solar system with very little energy input. It just takes a long time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Netwo...


I've read that the chip manufacturers are looking into high bandwidth flash for on package storage of ai models. That would solve some of the cost issue, flash is significantly cheaper than dram.


I recall the same thing with each new edition of Rainbow magazine. I would read it cover to cover several times. Eventually I would hand type in some of the BASIC programs. I remember reading about people connecting to various BBS's and be jealous of them. Now it's all at our finger tips for better or worse. I guess today there needs to be a conscious effort to filter out distracting noise, our attention has become monetized.


Maybe the solution is for an AI that acts as an instructor instead of just trying to solve everything itself. I do this with my kids, they ask me how to do something. I will give them hints, but not outright do it all for them. The article writer in the first part mentioned that this is how they would instruct too.


I recently heard that a professor said to the class, you can use an ai to solve the assignments. However I'll see if you really understand the material on the final exam.


In the 80's the Americans thought that the Russians were backwards to be still using vacuum tubes in their military vehicles. Later they found out that they were being used because they are more tolerant to EMP from a nuclear blast.


I remember my Dad buying a 386 25MHz a few years earlier for a similar amount.

In 1984 he bought a TRS-80 for almost a thousand dollars. 32kB RAM, around 1 MHz 8 bit CPU.

I bought a Pentium 90 in the late 90's for several thousand dollars. It had the FDIV bug in it.

After experiencing a lifetime of high depreciation in electronics, I'm extremely price sensitive when buying it. I feel that if I wait a few years everything will become much cheaper. Maybe that's not the case with the slow down in Moore's law and the AI datacenter build out.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: