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Why not display a Recent Phone Use option when both side buttons of an Apple device is pressed?

* slide to power off * Medical ID * SOS Emergency Call * Recent Phone Use

Report would be high-level -- has phone been unlocked in last 30 minutes, if so, timestamps showing when it was unlocked, for how long, how many finger taps occurred, etc.

That would give law enforcement a quick indication of whether phone was in use. Of course if there are passengers it could be contested. For more detail, they'd have to subpoena as they do now.


I hate people who use their phones while driving as much as the next person, but I would not buy a phone that divulged my personal information in this way.


That is not divulging personal information in any case and the privilege of driving requires some compromises there. For example, having a medical condition actually is a private matter but the state has a compelling public safety interest to require you to disclose conditions which affect your ability to drive safely.


Pressing both side buttons has nothing to do with driving.


The feature described does not give personal information. It would give information which is highly relevant during an official investigation in a privacy-preserving manner which does not open the possibility of giving other unintended information.

Now, it would be possible to use the same mechanism they use for digital drivers licenses to further restrict it but the nice thing about that idea is that not using sensitive information means there isn’t much concern of a leak.


The feature described divulges information such as "timestamps showing when it was unlocked, for how long, how many finger taps occurred, etc" which is absolutely personal information. And no, it is not privacy-preserving. It is an affront to all cryptographers to use the phrase "privacy-preserving" here given that it makes zero effort to preserve privacy.

Have you actually seen what amazing technologies are worthy of the name "privacy-preserving" these days? You can look up items in a database without the database operator knowing what you queried. You can let a server add two numbers without the server operator knowing what these two numbers are. These are worthy of the phrase "privacy-preserving" in this age.


That’s not a privacy risk under any normal definition of the term.


That was described as a way for a police officer to investigate your phone use after a traffic stop or in an accident investigation.


Then what safeguards does it have to ensure there is in fact a police officer and a traffic stop or an accident? None? Then it's a privacy nightmare that divulges your personal information to any stranger nearby.


I’m not advocating for it (and, in fact, think it’s a terrible idea). I was just explaining what the idea was.


Thanks. The idea was perfectly understood.


Ok. This post made me doubt that: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39146401


If you're suggesting that the state should make driver's licenses contingent on owning a phone with a feature like this, I guess I'll just have to give up my car or my phone, then.


I’m saying that it’s reasonable for a police officer investigating a collision to ask the driver about a very common cause of collisions, just as we allow them to check for alcohol and require you to take a test if you appear to be impaired.

The feature described would be a nice way to support those questions in a manner which does not reveal private information, require you to unlock the phone, or otherwise risk giving them access beyond what’s needed to answer the questions during an official investigation. You could of course choose not to use it but why you’d want to give them additional access to your device is beyond me.


And I'm saying that I disagree with you.


Sure, lots of people disagree with things but the law is what matters, not vibes. There’s a long-running precedent that investigating accidents makes it reasonable to ask what the operator of the vehicle was doing immediately before the crash.


I don’t see how that precedent applies. I can already easily answer their question without unlocking my device, and if they want evidence, they can get a warrant.

Even the breathalyzer requirement seems irrelevant, considering that it only requires you to submit to a breathalyzer performed by a police officer, rather than mandating that your BAC be available to anybody with physical access to your property.


> I can already easily answer their question without unlocking my device, and if they want evidence, they can get a warrant.

You can’t answer their question with anything but hearsay. This is why I brought up the DUI checks because we know some people are going to lie, and hard evidence can easily be acquired to sidestep that issue. The suggestion above would be similar in terms of having minimal privacy concern and because it’s cheap and easy it’d actually be done in non-egregious cases.


I reject your insistence that making an activity log, however opaque, visible to anybody with physical access to a device is a "minimal privacy concern." Repeating it as though it is settled fact does nothing to convince anybody. Perhaps if you'd ever had to deal with an abusive partner you'd see the obvious implications.

I also reject the comparison to DUI checks on the basis that those must be performed ASAP in order not to lose the evidence, thus necessitating urgency; the same doesn't apply to phones. As we've seen in, for example, the case of the Uber self-driving car operator who was using her phone when she killed a pedestrian, they were easily able to determine this after the fact, without such intrusive features.


Your testimony about your own behavior is not hearsay.


That's kind of describing Digital Wellbeing/Screen Time.


Which I have to unlock my phone to view.


I learned from that Alaska incident that a lot of people just don't lock their phone.


That data is practically useless because I'm using Google Maps and Spotify connected to my AUX neither of which I think most people consider using your phone while driving.


Ok, I'll bite. Why would most people not consider using Google Maps and Spotify on your phone to be using your phone?


I think the argument for these two apps would be that it's essentially identical to using the nav system and audio system of your car.

If your phone is mounted and easy to reach, that's perhaps true. If you're holding it in your hand and looking down, it's less comparable.


I think it's pretty clear cut that using your phone to do stuff is... using your phone.

If you want a dedicated gps or music player you can buy one.

In my area you can not use a phone at all while driving a motorcycle even for navigation.

You are allowed to buy a dedicated gps though.


In CA, the rules are now the same for cellphones and dedicated GPS units. The only exception is for "manufacturer-installed systems that are embedded in the vehicle". Taken literally, this means that if you have an aftermarket CarPlay-compatible head unit, it's illegal to touch it at all, other than to turn it on or off. [1]

It appears that new drivers are also forbidden from even looking at dash-mounted devices while driving. I get that they might be more easily distracted, and unable to give voice prompts while driving, but they presumably also need more help navigating, with advance lane change warnings, etc. Basically, these laws have not been especially well-calibrated, which is not surprising given that this is true for pretty much all laws regarding new technologies.

1: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/does-california-law-...


Hilarious take.

Touch device with cellular radio physically attached to car: A-ok

Touch device with a radio not connected to the car? VERBOTEN.


I believe there have been some legal disputes concerning this approach. Some time ago the US Constitution was amended to provide clarity.


I can’t wait for that to be used against me when I’ve been safely having my wife use my phone while I’m driving.


Reminded of advice my former boss, who spent a decade plus leading an elite military unit, received as he set out in his career:

“Be careful how much you give this organization, because we’ll take it.”


Reminded of this from an NYT article [1] about Tumblr:

The features Tumblr eliminates are as important to the way it feels as those it adopts. Bijan Sabet of Spark Capital, an early Tumblr investor who sits on its board, says that it is “normal behavior” for a founder to be excited about adding new bells and whistles, but Karp seems excited about doing the opposite: “He’ll tell us, ‘Hey, got a new version coming up — and I took four features out!’"

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/magazine/can-tumblrs-davi...


Reminded of these lines from a poem:

We look at the world once, in childhood. The rest is memory.


Try acid.

Enjoy the childlike wonder. Or don’t enjoy, not everything a child perceives is fun.


Would magic mushrooms be fine as well?


Sure would. Both work (partly) by increasing the communication between different parts of your brain. It's why people will "see" things after auditory stimuli, or vice versa.

Changes at this basic level are temporarily re-writing how your neural network connects to itself, which translates to a change in how you perceive the world at the most fundamental level. It is very different from consciously trying to adopt a different perspective, as in that case there is no change to the underlying network processing everything that makes you yourself.

Some people find experiencing this malleability extremely upsetting and disconcerting, as it destroys the idea of your "self" being something concrete. This understanding is the oft-referenced "ego death", and for sure it is both exciting and terrifying.


a lot of people like mushrooms over LSD because “they're natural”, they are poison and can make your stomach ache throughout your first trips until your tolerance builds, this can exacerbate negative aspects of your experience

Acid (LSD) is much stronger in muuuch lower doses and is more of a refined component - its a totally different dose scale. Doesn't mean you wont have a bad trip though, just that your stomach won't hurt lol. Buckle up. Great way to spend 500 years in an afternoon.


For sure, you learn what you live.


Beautiful.


Moore said investigators caught a break several months later, saying they were able to track her after she used an app on her new phone. Warfield's defense attorney, Joseph Balter, said later in the hearing that it was Warfield's "Words with Friends" app, which is a game similar to Scrabble.

From there, authorities were able to learn an alias email address Warfield was using, and used that to determine the phone she was using and its location, Moore said. They were arrested by law enforcement including federal agents from the ATF in Baltimore and Louisville, U.S. Deputy Marshals from Indiana, and officers from the Southeast Indiana Regional SWAT Team.


Key point here is that most people fail to consider the reader.


I'm with you wrt Twitter.

It is an amazing source of information, but much of it is daily drama that is a form of entertainment -- a modern Jerry Springer.

These tweets and videos serve as a conversational currency of sorts. Not sure it's worth it.


I feel this way too. I think you can still get access to a lot of the "conversational currency" by just checking it less frequently. Making highly curated lists helps a lot too, since you can isolate a lot of the more drama/entertainment-focused users to particular feeds.


Yes. This worked well for me.


The channel is the value. It's simple and every mobile phone has SMS. No need to keep a browser window open during a chat with support, nor is there a chance you'll miss a chat alert only to discover that the agent, after having waited x minutes, has disconnected, forcing you to start all over.


This is precisely where the value is. More companies are allowing to "move" your online chat session to Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, and SMS.


First I've heard of the suggestion that the cost of a car should be 50% of annual pay. To me that's insane, but then again I view my car as an appliance[0].

[0] https://oppositelock.kinja.com/i-used-to-take-it-as-a-given-...


US median household income is 63k. So for a two income house, that would mean two cars costing a total of 31.5k max.

A 2020 yaris starts at 15,650. With fees, should be around that mark.

The problem is, the median US household does not buy a Yaris. They spend more like double that. So 30-40k PER car, two cars per household.


For a coherent analysis, you should use the median income of two earner households. Two people where one makes $75K and the other makes $50K equals a household of $125K.

And it seems obviously extravagant to me for a middle class family to have two new cars. One maybe, but two? But even so, by the formula, the family can afford two $30K cars.


in 2005, the last actual data I could find that lists 2 income households, the median income was $75,293, assuming that income kept pace with inflation that would be $98,562 today not 125K,

Such a family would not want to spend more than 49K total on their cars. so that is 1 car for 49K or 2 for 24K

and that IMO should be the extreme absolute limit


I think it's intended as an extreme upper bound, not the optimal value.


> ...should not cost more than half of your annual income.


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