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pneumatic drill: 8 years, dead

the sharp stick of metal my dad gave me: 38 years and counting

long live the sharp stick of metal ?

What a terrible take. Yes, ls is maintained. Although, maintained is a very strong word. It exists. It's getting a few maintenance commits here and there, and in the mean time, it's feature done. It won't evolve anymore. Just like how exa will keep existing, and won't evolve anymore. Exa also does a hell of a lot more than ls, so will LSD, Eza and others. But keep using the sharp stick of metal if it makes you feel better.


> Yes, ls is maintained. Although, maintained is a very strong word. It exists.

Why would it be a strong word? Here it is, in src/ls.c: https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils

It is then packaged by tens of operating system distributions, who themselves maintain extra patchsets, some of which are then upstreamed.

It is installed and used on millions (billions?) of devices, for 3 decades.

It's a very reliable and trusty "sharp stick of metal" :)


That's GNU coreutils.


Yes, and it includes the "ls" program that this thread discusses.


I like how people are arguing that ls is alive, like there is active work being done on it over 38 years. A Unix tool that does one thing well can be considered finished and sit for years without anything going on. That doesn't mean it's dead. Sure, maybe people want fancy new stuff, but again, doesn't mean dead. If it had security problems for years, then one could argue that it's dangerous for it not to be updated and if it isn't, then proclaim it dead so people will move to something safer, but this trend to call something dead because it isn't in rust and doesn't have colors and git awareness? Meh


Exactly! ls is alive, and just exists, mostly. The commits done on it are extremely minor changes to save up 0.0001% of performance and because the APIs it was using are sometimes deprecated. And that's fine!

However, when a new project arrives and does more, suddenly it's dogshit because it's stopped evolving despite doing infinitely more than ls.

Unixheads have a weird inferiority complex when it comes to anything not in coreutils.


coreutils is GNU. GNU is not unix. BSD utilities in base have far more utilities than coreutils.

Also, learn to use ls -F under an alias. You get the 99% of the functionality with very little.



Good for you if you accept that your tools might get rug-pulled from you any time. I don't.


Is exa gone ? Can you not download exa anymore ? Are the binaries deleted from the internet ? Is the source completely overwritten ? Has it been removes from crates.io and from package managers ? Has it suddenly stopped listing files in your folders?

Calling it having your tools rug-pulled from you is, quite frankly, the most moronic thing I've read today.


Not yet.


It's not a full Chrome browser.

It's actually an Unreal Engine 4 application, that only displays an Unreal Motion Graphics UI, that only contains a single Web Browser widget, that may or may not be chromium. Also its PresentInterval is locked to 2, so it'll never go over 30 FPS. Fun times!


The Epic Games Launcher:

- remembers which pane you were on last time you closed, so you'll never see the store unless you go there on purpose.

- allows you to disable every notification.

You're never going to see a Fortnite ad, please make up a new imaginary problem.


It doesn't have a linux version, so unless you're a gamer it's not worth the effort to get it running unless something has changed... Last time I found it easier to just download the UE5 source to mess around with it. Afterwards, it seems like I needed the Epic client for other reasons. I'm guessing there could be legitimate barriers although it's been a long time for me. Currently I'm downloading the new UE5 source again and take another stab at getting the Epic client running.


> please make up a new imaginary problem.

what.


>You have to ignore 120 years of intellectual progress on economics to still want to apply labor theory of value to problems. There may be a day when we can achieve some semblance of a "socialist" mode of production

What an absolute load of crap. Economics as a whole is barely a science, at best a toy, and that multiple pathways exist is not an indictment of any theory. Marx's observations hold true all these years after, alongside the progress we've had.

You clowns would take a system as complex as, oh, simply the whole of human activity and try to reduce it to a few simple laws. Sorry, despite what you learned online, "supply and demand" is not a fundamental law of the universe. This is not physics. There are no simple answers. There aren't even proper answers. Every school of economics holds on barely by a thread. "Assuming a rational actor" is the "assume a spherical cow in a vacuum" of liberal economics.


Economics itself is a reduction of human behaviour to resource allocation.

The underlying field of study of human action in general is called praxeology and was only seriously investigated by:

- Austrian school economists (1900s-present)

- Polish school philosophers (briefly in the interwar period, died out after WW2 when Lwów became Lviv)

I think wresting praxeology free of economics would be an interesting movement in philosophy.


I do not agree with the upper comment that economy is not a science. It is just a human science, where you could have different schools of thought based on different philosophies. But praxeology is indeed an example of something that is not science, as it rejects the scientific method and the empirism.


If economics is a science, how do you run an experiment?

Let’s say you want to see how phenomenon X scales as a function of population, and create a model X(p)

How do you set up N identical scenarios and, ceteris paribus, vary the population? You cannot.

Two separate nations are distinct systems. Setting up 2 identical factories next door, one with 100 staff and one with 1000 staff would be a monumental waste of effort, and what if the geographical separation, or airflow, or cloud cover, or… affected the experiment?

Let’s say you run a single economic experiment. How do you reproduce it? How does your counterpart reproduce it?


You do not create experiments. You create models that try to explain the world and check your model predictions and what happens in the world. When the two disagree, you update the model and try to explain what went wrong. As you cannot make experiments to check, it is inevitable that you will end with more than one model for different school of thoughts. As is in all academic disciplines that are part of humanities. This is not like in the natural sciences where you can agree with a single model. Nonetheless, this is better than having no empirism or scientific method at all and having models built based on some logical axioms treated as the ultimate truth, as some unscientific parts of the economy do.

Moreover, in the natural sciences, you also cannot perform experiments for some parts of cosmology, for example. Nonetheless, you keep creating models in the hope that they would allow you to discover and predict more things and to interpret better the universe. If they do, your model clearly shows some benefits, even if in the future with more powerful technology, it could be disproved. Economy do not need to be so different than this.


>Nonetheless, this is better than having no empiricism or scientific method at all and having models built based on some logical axioms treated as the ultimate truth

Like theories built on mathematics or logic?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not shilling Austrian economics and I disagree with most assumptions of pure rationality, but I think an axiomatic approach to human decision making is not necessarily a bad thing. I’m sure preferences and biases have some mechanism we can quantify and explain from first principles.


Europe's definition of monopoly is one that actually makes sense, unlike the US's bafflingly stupid version. You do not need over 50% to be a monopoly.


One is software and is explicitly made to be replaceable. Your iPhone will not stop working because you uninstalled the Weather app. It might be slightly more unhappy if you desolder the RAM.


Neither is made to be replaceable by Apple.

The EU argues that one ought to be replaceable and not the other. Yet the line of which components should be replaceable and which not is undefined.


And Apple wasn't planning to use USB-C either, but the EU didn't argue and told them to. Apple does not get to override laws. They either obey, or leave the market.


HRTFs are not an Apple device feature, they are a widely known thing. Apple just markets it as Spatial audio


The absolute entitlement to believe that delivery workers should be coming up to your door at the 9th floor, while complaining about "ethics".

You're using a delivery service like Uber Eats, Deliveroo or Doordash that are well known to underpay, overwork and unjustly punish workers that do not maximize their deliveries per hour, and you have the gall to complain that they're not taking pride in their jobs from your ivory tower.

Your feet are not going to die because your fat ass has to get up from the couch. Put on some slippers, some pants and go down. Do it early too, every app offers tracking, don't make them wait for five minutes while you find your keys.


> Your feet are not going to die because your fat ass has to get up from the couch.

The obesity rate in Brazil isn't actually too terrible, by modern standards. Most of the customers are probably not fat asses.


Some people have disabilities thou.


Yeah, or even just small children who can't be kept from burning the building down.


Are you disabled?


It can also be argued that in a country like Brazil you might get assaulted or kidnapped if you leave your flat.

Either way, some people can’t leave their flats, period.


> Either way, some people can’t leave their flats, period.

So you ask for that nicely, and be respectful to others, like always, right?


I meant that some people (like motion-challenged and otherwise disabled) cannot leave their flats easily.

This is independent from my being Portuguese and having Brazilian relatives who have witnessed (and been victims of) violent (and murderous) acts during robberies.

Want to keep being snarky, or should we move on to discuss that life is _really hard_ in some places?


.


So they're supposed to let themselves into your house, walk to your bedroom and hand it to you there?


At what point do consumers become responsible for the choices made by businesses that they patronize?

I expect the working conditions and pay of your delivery driver exceeds that of the person who made your pants. Don't you also owe those workers a fair shake?


While I do not have any control over whether the place I buy my jeans from uses overworked children from Bangladesh, I also have the very basic human empathy needed to know you shouldn't complain to said children when your Shein order isn't next day delivery.

By all means, blast Uber, blast <shitty gig economy company>, but passing on the blame onto the guy that barely makes minimum wage and destroys his car/bike in the process is downright moronic.


If you feel guilt for paying a Uber eats driver to go up a couple flights of stairs but don't feel any for employing children to produce textiles because "I can't do anything about it", I promise you that your moral compass isn't working correctly.


You can add other languages, such as Kotlin to that list. It is explicitly made to give you the ability to build a strongly typed DSL with proper scoping, references, validation, comes with all the benefits of a real language, including working language servers right out of the box that autocomplete everything properly. But that would require sysadmins to admit that editing all their config through nano with no syntax highlighting is an awful idea, no matter the amount of time they tell BUT WHAT IF I'M SSHING ON A SERVER IN ALASKA.

Despite all the complaints I have for Gradle (which, arguably, solves problems much more complex than "Ask AWS to burn through my cash"), its Kotlin DSL is impressively powerful and extensible.


ssh-ing somewhere strange on a small laggy connection is standard operating procedure. Not having internet is normal. Not being able to write gigabytes of crap into root's home is normal. Not to mention not installing some weird language environment like Kotlin just so the config is highlighted properly. Including all the bazillion libs i'll need. And all the editor configuration that i'll of course have to copy around everywhere. And then debug first, to get the language server working on old CrapHeadDistro 17.9 from back when Obama still ruled. Only to get chewed up in the next security audit for having installed too much useless old crap, because I need that to edit some config files...

You can pry vim from my cold dead hands. After pressing <Esc> thrice of course. You may even get me to install a syntax highlighting file somewhere and maybe use netrw if possible. But a random server you are adminning just isn't the same as your average developers single laptop.


>You can pry vim from my cold dead hands.

I won't need to, you're already giving yourself carpal tunnel with all the :wQ! INSERT-MODE :wmkGDonzn zz CWSFD, these hands are already marked for death.


actually the opposite is true. esc-meta-alt-ctrl-shift[0] is more likely to give you carpal tunnel, than vi where you switch modes and then type commands with single keys instead of twisted key combos. i actually get annoyed at how many ctrl-key combos vim has.

[0] i don't know if emacs is that bad, but that's a classic pun that just fit here.


I used vim for 10 years (not really an advanced user, but comfortable with it), and I just learned Emacs for the last 6 months...

I am now completely confused by the Emacs vs Vim religious war.

The two programs excel at completely different layers of productivity.

I can't think of any software that radically approaches improving your workflow like either vim or Emacs, and they are both wholly unique.

I also use evil mode in Emacs and while it feels like a great match, it has some impedance mismatch in some emacs packages.

It really makes me wonder if there is a deeper layer of integration that can be done here to really allow people to take the reigns off their interaction with computers.


I am now completely confused by the Emacs vs Vim religious war

i think at least half of those who keep up with the emacs vs vim war are doing it just to confuse newbies. the other half really just prefers the emacs way or the vi way.

either way though you are right. they are both very distinct, and it's not one being absolutely better than the other.


To be fair, I have never advocated for Emacs either. Nano for quick edits, proper IDEs for anything else.


every editing command in nano is either ctrl-key or alt-key. vi/vim is the only editor that i am aware of that doesn't make me stretch my fingers across the keyboard.


rclone allows you to mount remote fs via ssh, it has some quirks but overall I'm able to maintain my self host setup with this. also I'm sure there are plenty of similar plugins, maybe even officially vendored, for all the shiny IDEs


Either ask very politely for years, or be in denial like half the Jai community that writes Jai but is never able to compile it.

Yes, there is a whole Jai community wiki made from half cobbled together knowledge (https://github.com/Jai-Community/Jai-Community-Library/wiki), and a super secret discord made for the super elite, non-compiler-having plebs are banned.


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