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just use Rust, and never look back.

Why is this comment downvoted? I mean, is it downvoted because Rust is bad for embeded systems?

Probably because it's kind of annoying to bring up Rust in a C++ thread.


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it's more than that.

I think banking apps especially the ones in UK, won't work on this device.

NatWest and Monzo work fine on my Pixel 9a running GrapheneOS. Community maintained list of supported banking apps here:

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

Google Wallet is not supported at all.


Curve works and you can set that up as a replacement for Google Pay.

with avbroot ?

I didn't have to do any resigning or repacking apks. It just worked installed from the play store.

As domh mentioned, some (not all) banking apps do seem to work well at the moment. My concern would be that what works today may not work tomorrow. My HSBC app seems to get more crippled with every update and it wouldn't surprise me at all if a future update rendered it unusable on GrapheneOS (which is the main thing stopping me from moving to it).

It's probably a pipe dream but I do hope that someone like Motorola officially supporting GrapheneOS will make businesses take support somewhat seriously. If nothing else you sound less like a crazy person when you tell your bank's customer support "I bought a Motorola phone and now your app doesn't work" than "I flashed a custom ROM to my Pixel and now your app doesn't work".


Banking apps will be catastrophe in the future. Petition your bank, you want to use PC web app with certificate authentication.

If they don't support it -> notify them and change bank. Enough people doing this, something will change.


Good luck with that. Of all the things people don't really care about, I think that might be at the far end of the list.

Certification authentication is neat technology in principle, I use it internally, but in my experience anyone who recognizes it also hates it passionately. It's the thing that seemingly stops working every time their taxes are due, courtesy of terrible government software.

If I started telling people that they should be demanding certificate authentication from their banks, they'd probably think that I escaped an asylum.


90% of banking apps work on GrapheneOS. Curve Pay works for tap-to-pay.

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... has a UK section.


What would he have written instead?

My point is that there's nothing to be written there "instead", it just is not needed text that is added to make the text longer, typical of AI writing that parrots the same points over and over to make up for word count.

Here's another example from the blog:

> Here is something that gets lost in all the excitement about AI productivity: most software engineers became engineers because they love writing code.

> Not managing code. Not reviewing code. Not supervising systems that produce code. Writing it. The act of thinking through a problem, designing a solution, and expressing it precisely in a language that makes a machine do exactly what you intended. That is what drew most of us to this profession. It is a creative act, a form of craftsmanship, and for many engineers, the most satisfying part of their day.

can just be:

> Most software engineers became engineers because they love writing code. It is a creative act, a form of craftsmanship, and for many engineers, the most satisfying part of their day.

Clarity is something that is taught in every writing class but AI generated text always seems to have this weird cadance as follows: The sound is loud. Not a whimper, not a roar, a simple sound that is very loud. And that's why... blah blah blah.

You have to care about your readers if you're writing something seriously. Throwing just a bunch of text that all mean the same thing in your writing is one of the bigger sins you can do, and that's why most people hate reading AI writing.


I don't know...

The part you'd like to remove ("Not managing code...") may be not required to convey the objective meaning of the sentence, but humans have emotions, too. I could have written stuff like that. To build up a bigger emotional picture.

> The act of thinking through a problem, designing a solution, and expressing it precisely in a language that makes a machine do exactly what you intended.

This sentence may not be relevant for whatever you experience to be the relevant message of the text. But it still says something the remaining paragraph does not. And also something I can relate to.

Also, as LLMs are statistical models, one has to assume that they write like this because their training data tells them to. Because humans write like this. Not when they do professional writing maybe, but when they just ramble. Not all blogs are written by professionals. I'd say most aren't. LLM training data consists mostly of humans rambling.

I also sometimes write long comments on the internet. And while I have no example to check, I feel like I do write such sentences, expanding on details to express more emotional context. Because I'm not a robot and I like writing a lot. I think it's a perfectly human thing to do. I find it sad that "writing more than absolutely needed" is now regarded as a sign of AI writing.


> Because humans write like this. Not when they do professional writing maybe, but when they just ramble.

I keep seeing this assertion and I keep responding "Please, point to the volume of writing with this specific cadence that has a date prior to 2024" and I keep getting... crickets!

You're asserting that this is a common way for humans to write, correct? Should be pretty easy, then, to find a large volume of examples.


Like I said: I think I write like this on some occasions.

I wouldn't know how I would search for examples. I guess you'd have to search old reddit comment threads or something. But yeah, I have no motivation to do that, tbh. It could be that it's hard to find examples because they are scattered about in countless comment threads and single posts on countless platforms. Things I rarely keep links to, things nobody indexed on a large scale before LLMs.

It may be that it wasn't a very popular style of writing, because most people don't like writing a lot and keep their texts on the internet short. LLMs exaggerate this style because they generate exaggerative amounts of text in general. The style wasn't particularly annoying in the past because it wasn't that popular. It's annoying now because LLMs flood the internet with it.

The quoted example in particular didn't appear uncanny to me. And it still doesn't. I can see myself writing like that. I'm sorry I have no example for you. But I'm genuinely unsure whether I'm oblivious to the patterns others see, or whether others see patterns because they want to see them.


It doesn't have to be your writing you show - the assertion is that LLMs write this way because humans write this way.

My counter is that I don't find examples of this type of writing prior to 2024; not with the same frequency of "tells" per paragraph, at any rate.


One of the good book about writing I read was William Zinsser's "On Writing Well". Striving for simplicity and avoiding clutter was the two first principles described in the book. AI writing feels more like ramblings than communication.

When I've used AI for proofreading the suggestions it makes to me is to cut a lot and shorten it. It also gives me examples, never with my voice or style though.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about florid and elaborate writing (e.g. Faulkner, Lispector, Mieville, Mossman, Joyce, Austen, etc)?

I do not think Faulkner would write very good C++ library documentation.

I would read the hell out of Joyce’s Perl 5 documentation, but only after six or seven beers.


There's an art to it. Most human attempts, and every LLM attempt I've ever seen, are awful, sometimes bordering on unreadable, but, as you say, there are a relatively small number of authors who do it well. That doesn't mean that most people should do it.

I'm a French speaker and florid and elaborate writing is something I've grown up with. It can be difficult if you don't know the word or are not used to the style, but it's not boring. AI writing is just repetitive.

This is the beginning of 3rd world war.

What makes you think that?

Would you be willing to back up that claim with money on a prediction market?

It's very subjective, not appropriate for a prediction market.

Yup, up to those that write the history books.

Then it's also not a very useful claim to make on Hacker News.

I tried using https://letscage.com for this. Almost same design but in rust

I lived in Denmark for quite a while, don’t ever believe that, because it’s never going to happen.


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