So you’re admitting that applying for jobs they should be able to get, in a place they should be able to apply in, under federal law is not going to work?
Sounds like fraud to me. Or a crime of some sort.
If they do it, and it clearly doesn’t work, it even sounds like something they could take to court.
In fact, something that is perhaps their duty to take to court.
You're reading too much into it. It's a case of bad UX. The jobs do not exist. The actual job application/interview etc. happened years ago, when it did exist, and everyone, including locals, had the same shot at it. When the job existed, someone was hired for it, and it happened to be someone on a visa. In order to keep that person employed in this job and get them a green card, the government requires that the job be advertised again afresh. It's a non-sensical requirement that was added because some politican or lobbyist asked for it. The natural way to add protectionism to this model would have been to add it at the outset, but that clearly wouldn't work for the economy. So a compromise was engineered. Companies can hire anyone generally as long as they are, in principle, temporary. When it comes to keeping them permanently, the government requires that they do this charade of posting ads again and doing a market test etc.
That is not a UX issue, that is blatant immigration fraud my man.
The reason they are required to readvertise is because the visa they are on is for jobs that cannot be filled by a local, so if the job can actually be filled by a local, that person should lose the visa and have to leave (or find another job that supports them being here).
That isn’t a technicality, except the prior admins allowed it to be.
Does that suck for the person on the visa? Yeah. But guess what, it also sucks for the unemployed locals.
So either the gov’t actively throws locals under the bus, or follows the rules.
When everything is going up and to the right, or no one can see why they’re struggling, it’s easy to gloss over these ‘small details’. But they’re not so small in reality, eh?
You do not know enough about immigration and are spewing falsehoods.
First, a visa is not permission to stay in the U.S. A foreigner can have an expired visa and a valid status to be in the U.S. (they can take their time at their leisure to apply for one). Conversely they can have an unexpired visa but no permission to be in the U.S. (such as when they have a H-1B visa but is actually unemployed for a long time).
Second, this entire process of advertising fake job openings is not at all related to visas, H-1B or not. It's related to the employment based green card process. Hiring an H-1B requires a Labor Condition Application from Department of Labor, not a Permanent Labor Certification. The former does not require any attempt to hire American workers.
Third, even if some Americans apply for these fake job openings, that doesn't mean that foreigner must leave. After all, the foreigner still has valid H-1B status (see first point). It's a setback to their green card process only.
Fourth, whether or not the job can be filled by a local is determined by the company. Sure such determination will need to be submitted to the government for approval. Imagine that the company requires 10 years of experience with Ruby but the local has 9 years of experience. Guess whether the company will see this local as qualified? There's no good way to solve this problem. Companies can require whatever skill and experience they want in their job requirements. The government doesn't determine whether the job requirement itself is sensible. It just checks that no locals satisfy the job requirement. Do you get the point now? Companies can construct the job requirement however they want such that the job cannot be filled by a local. Companies are not abusing any law. Companies are exercising their right to choose qualifications for the jobs.
Fifth, you say "sucks for the unemployed locals" but there is no requirement for companies to check that the local applying is currently unemployed. This is not a joblessness reduction program. Maybe the locals who are applying are just switching jobs, in which case if they succeed their old employer loses a headcount. There's no net change in employment figures. The law doesn't care.
Next time before you spew falsehoods on HN, spend an afternoon learning about H-1B, LCA, PERM, EB-1, EB-2 and such topics. Before you accuse companies of committing fraud, consider whether the law actually allows what the companies are doing and whether it is the law that should be changed. Considering directing your anger from prior administrations to Congress instead.
I likely know far, far more about this process than you.
Including currently having
‘Right to work’ in 3 hemispheres on this planet, 2 from visas from various governments. I’ve hired dozens of people in the US under H1B’s, married someone on a green card, etc.
Companies are, and have been, clearly abusing the law in the US for decades. It’s only ramped up over the years and has gotten quite absurd.
I have many friends on H1Bs, and am quite familiar with what is going on recently too.
Just because prior admins have been ignoring illegal behavior doesn’t mean it is actually legal. It just means the party is over, eh?
Using HTTPS to check Gmail and send messages isn't what I'd call libertarian tech. You're still communicating everything in cleartext to Google, whoever you're emailing with, and whoever subpoenas Google or the other provider.
Jesus. They were literally answering your question of “how can anyone be committed to someone they describe as a lesser evil”, very clearly not even using a specific side as the lesser evil, and you’re mad that anyone is able to elucidate or understand the reasoning used? You didn’t want to know how people do that, you just wanted to mention that they are terrible people and it’s a bad choice?
We're at a point where if that is parody then it is indistinguishable from reality. I hope you're right and that it is parody. But hell, just the other week I saw someone pull out the "bUt YoU dIdN't UsE a SoTa MoDeL" card in reference to a GPT-5 output and I mistakenly assumed this was a joke.
Sarcasm doesn't seem to translate well over the internet. Fewer clues and people conflate the ability to read with literacy. I love sarcasm, but it appears Descartes was right
> Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they’re in good company.
I hope it was sarcasm, because I didn't want to offend anyone. Perhaps I'm reading too much in the details, but highlighting my team and the other team made me think that. (Anyway, I agree that it's better to avoid sarcasm online.)
I hope you're right. I used to default to assuming sarcasm but that changed. I hope I'm wrong though, because you are right, there are enough elements where I did take a second to consider if it was
Yes, PG in political science and I have worked in policy research. How about you?
The probability of committing a crime is significantly higher if you have committed a crime before. This is constant in every society that doesn't put criminals in jail. You seem to be suggesting some interesting new theory that not having a leg is really what everyone should care about...if you were reading someone else say this would you take this seriously? No, a tiny proportion commit the majority of crime, serious crime in countries like the US is almost all committed by 1% of the population. The solution is simple: put them in jail, crime disappears.
And it was even a failure for the North - sure, in theory they won, and in practice they just let the South stay as they were but poorer and with a few Black people able to leave.
> The confederates should have been punished, publicly.
No, it would have led to decades or centuries of resentment between the north and the south and eventually another civil war among those lines. It would have destroyed the union for good. The only purpose of the civil war for the North was to save the union, humiliating the south would have ensured that it would never really happen.
The North 'saved' the union by allowing the South to continue its brutal practices against the freedmen leading to almost a hundred years of violence, lynching and the Black Codes designed to keep control over the 'freed' slaves.
Thaddeus Stevens was proven correct in his opinion that the south should've been treated like a conquered state and the land forcibly given to the freedmen.
“Here we are”, indeed. Lynchings, massacres, expulsion, mass criminalization, a slave workforce for the plantations…and I’m only talking about the immediate aftermath for black southerners, not the centuries of continued violence.
I don't think parent poster is arguing that point. I think parent poster's point is that all of those things happened and the alternative, had the South been brutally subjugated, decimated, or humiliated, would have been objectively worse.
I think it's a really silly point to be made because they would have to either ignore or downplay how absolutely criminal the conditions were for the freedmen. I cannot imagine a situation much worse.
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