Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | fjarlq's comments login


Ha, thanks for the correction, I've been giving the wrong name to Ken Thompson's game for years!


Also, it was ported (rewritten) to a PDP-7.


A recent thread with some good ideas: https://lobste.rs/s/d5qwzs/what_is_your_mac_os_setup


That interview, by Game Thinking TV, June 29, 2023: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfXxzAVtdpU


This was written December 13, 2022.


@dang - the year should be included in the title.


@dang is a no-op. For reliable message delivery the only way is hn@ycombinator.com.


And there's been significant market recovery since. What does it all mean? Heck if I know.


Added. Thanks!


And the Do Not Go Gentle novels by Mark Millstorm.


> A thing I've never been clear on is whether the Extropian Mike Perry was the FIG F-83 Mike Perry or the Tor Mike Perry.

Neither, he's the Alcor Mike Perry:

https://www.alcor.org/library/alcor-member-profiles/michael-...


Thanks! His active years as a programmer coincide with the FIG F-83 Mike Perry, which was a time when there weren't very many programmers. So it's quite a coincidence!


The author of that OpenSSH feature, Alexander von Gernler, tells that story:

https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20080615022750

Video of Kaminsky exploring the problem and how to fix it, 10 minutes into "Black Ops 2006 Viz Edition":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT2hOyK2qv4#t=9m58s


There’s plenty of room at the Top: What will drive computer performance after Moore’s law? (2020)

PDF: http://gaznevada.iq.usp.br/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/thomps...


I vaguely recall reading somewhere that for some nontrivial software (I forget what exactly) the speedup from hardware advances between Apple II and ~2000 was roughly equivalent to running the most modern iteration of the algorithms involved on the original machine.

I've terribly butchered this since the details completely escape me but you get what I mean. It feels like it could be true, which is... neat. This sort of thing certainly happened several times with gaming consoles where developers are able to squeeze every ounce of performance from the hardware at the very end of its generation.


Trends in algorithmic progress https://aiimpacts.org/trends-in-algorithmic-progress/ is the best work on this topic I am aware of.

2000x is believable, but that doesn't mean the latest algorithm will run on Apple II. Algorithmic speedup is often hardware relative. For example better cache locality is less important in older hardwares.


I find that the main takeaway is that the time/space/complexity tradeoff dimensions become immense with even modest Moore's Law scaling improvements.

On the actual back-in-the-day Apple II at time of release, you probably did not get a configuration that maxed out RAM and storage because it just cost too darn much. But as you got into the 80's, prices came down, and the Apple could expand to fit with more memory and multiple disks, without architectural changes.

As such, a lot of the early microcomputer software assumed RAM and storage starvation and the algorithms had to be slow and simple to make the most of memory, but Apple developers could push the machine hard when ignoring the market forces that demanded downsizing. It was a solid workstation platform. When the 16-bit micros came around the baseline memory configuration expanded remarkably, so completely different algorithms became feasible for all software, which made for a substantial generation gap.

By the 90's, the "free lunch" scenario was in full swing and caching became normalized, and so everything has been about faster runtimes, but at systemic scale, with layers of cache, it's often hard to pinpoint the true bottleneck.



I disagree, based on the same evidence you've linked.


"If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."


Note the word probably.

If one find it interesting one shouldn't flag it just because "we use to flag stuff like that".


Videos of Ken Thompson and Rob Pike telling Unix history stories:

Ken Thompson (interviewed by Brian Kernighan, 2019, starts after 7m38s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6q5dv_B-o#t=7m38s

Rob Pike (Unix History presentation, 2018, starts after 3m40s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2NI6t2r_Hs#t=3m40s


Thank you soooo much for posting the links to these. I'm just starting to dive in to the Thompson interview and it's amazing.

I strongly recommend anyone with even a vague interest in UNIX (well, obviously that would be everyone reading this HN thread) to watch these!


Ken Thompson interviewed by Kernighan is a real treat. I love this interview.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: