As discussed in the original article, John Gilmore (co-founder of EFF) did sue. "His complaint was dismissed on the basis of TSA policies that said travelers were still allowed to fly without ID as long as they submitted to a more intrusive 'pat-down' and search. The court didn’t rule on the question of whether a law or policy requiring ID at airports would be legal, since the TSA conceded there was no such law."
FWIW, REAL-ID is not about U.S. citizenship: A passport issued by any country is considered "compliant" with the REAL-ID Act for air travel or any other purpose, regardless of the person's U.S. immigration status. Some politicians seem to have deluded themselves to think that requiring REAL-ID will stop "illegal aliens" from flying. But it won't. Many foreigners in the U.S. (regardless of U.S. immigration status) have an easier time getting REAL-ID (a passport from their country of citizenship) than some U.S. citizens.
As of the imposition of start of this new fee/fine, about 200,000 people a day fly without ID or without REAL-ID: https://papersplease.org/wp/2025/05/28/200000-people-a-day-f... - At $45 a pop, that would bring in >$3B a year. "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money."
That's a really disappointing source. The headline is '200,000 people a day fly without REAL-ID', which starts out quite interesting.
It then goes on to explain that the TSA has reported 93% of traveler's complied with REAL ID, citing a TSA blog from a week prior which in fact states the same.
They then take this and couple it with a single day, which they state was the busiest travel day of the Memorial Day weekend, and extrapolate that 7% of the travelers that day must've failed to provide a REAL ID.
For the sake of conversation, this is a reasonable statement. Going back and using it to suggest 200k fly without it on a typical day is not reasonable, nor is your suggestion that a 6 months later it's still at 7% (or even typical travel volume hasn't changed.) There has to be better data available.
I was curious about this, so I looked up travel volume. YTD the daily average is 2,130,136 passengers. At 7%, this is 149,109.5 passengers or $2.449 B a year in fees. This ignores that you only pay the fee once very 10 days and assumes that all travelers pay the fee on every occurrence.
The most recent press release from the TSA claims that it's now 6% of passengers not showing ID or not showing REAL ID: https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/releases/2025/12/01/tsa-intro... So down only slightly since May 2025 when they started "enforcing" a "requirement" to show REAL-ID.
So, 1 to 2 billion dollars, depending on how many round trips are above or below 10 days. You're right, I thought this was real money, like 3 billion. But 1 to 2 billion? You find that between the couch cushions every week. I'm so glad people like you are out there debunking these ridiculous claims.
This is such an odd point that some of you are arguing. You’re nitpicking numbers (some of you incorrectly) and sidestepping the main issue entirely. None of you are providing sources, you’re just handwaving away saying “this will barely impact anybody” basically. It’s such an odd argument and I don’t get the point.
The point is that lots of people will pay this fee and it will equal a large amount of money and it does nothing of value. It’s just a fee for the fee’s sake. It serves no practical purpose, it’s just punitive.
What is the actual legitimate purpose of this fee that millions will likely pay? Almost half the country flies annually and multiple states don’t require a RealID in the first place. So we’re talking millions of people, some of which will pay it multiple times, per year until full compliance. This is built to net a consequential amount of money and it doesn’t seem like it’s for any purpose other than to generate revenue at people’s expense.
It does not make flying safer. It doesn’t even pretend to make flying safer. It doesn’t cover some cost. You can fly without it.
It’s an arbitrary tax that will mostly be paid by people who can’t or won’t take the time to go to the DMV to get an ID that is not even required to replace the perfectly good one they already have. At the end of the day this is why nobody has gotten it! They keep saying you need to get it (years now) but you don’t actually need to. If it’s that important then they should say “you cannot get on an airplane without one.” But it isn’t, so they don’t, and now that’s just a revenue opportunity.
No, it's not "regulatory policy". It's been done entirely with some combination of secret "Security Directives" and "rulemaking by press release". As the article and the linked references explain, the TSA never issued any regulations, published any of the required notices, or obtained any of the approvals that would have been required even if Congress had passed an (unconstitutional) authorizing statute (which it didn't).
Unlike other service providers, a common carrier by definition cannot refuse service to anyone willing to pay the fare in the tariff. Common carrier laws are some of the oldest consumer protection laws, enacted to protect travelers and shippers of goods against predatory and discriminatory pricing. Federal law recognizes the "public right of transit" by air, and requires boith airlines and Federal agencies to respect it.
This is only true for the "ticket purchase" not for the service itself.
Outside of ERs in exigent circumstances, any commercial enterprise in the U.S. retains the right to "refuse service" though the nuances of enumerated reasons backed by jurisprudence differ by industry and locale.
An airline can not refuse the "service purchase" unless the customer has been "banned" (technically a trespass statute), but they can refuse to "execute service" for a whole host of reasons including unforeseeable "Acts of God", logistics, or simply if the customer is intoxicated.
This is not true, in at least 2 respects: (1) a common carrier has a legal duty not just to sell a ticket but to provide transportation according to the tariff, and (2) this means an airline can't order a passenger not to board, or order them off the plane, unless they have violated some terms of the tariff. Some airlines have tried to create their own no-fly lists, but without opening up another area of discussion these have no more basis in law than the government's no-fly list, and have never (so far as I know) been reviewed by courts.
Intoxication, ill health, threats to other passengers/crew, assault, and battery are just a few of the many reasons an airline is well within its rights to "refuse service" and this includes not allowing the passenger to ever board the plane.
You're correct that any sort of federal no-fly list is not lawful and, so far, there isn't enough court precedence to make a general policy and the ACLU has won some (limited) court victories. IMO, it is unconstitutional.
In practice, a "banned" passenger is trespassed off of airline property (the plane or gate) and that prior trespass is noted in their customer registry. If the "banned" passenger attempts to fly with the airline again, they are advised verbally or with text that they will not be able to board the plane, but they can still book a ticket. The passenger is then "trespassed" (again) at the gate and not allowed to board.
I'm a citizen and resident of the USA. But I have travelled often in Germany, roaming on Deutshce Telekom cell towers using a cellphone with a T-Mobile USA SIM and a US phone number. DT has collected data about my roaming in Germany, and has transferred that data to T-Mobile USA for billing and other purposes. So some of the data about me held by T-Mobile USA, which T-Mobile USA has refused to allow me to see, was collected in Germany by Deutsche Telekom.
(I could be wrong but) GDPR does not grant rights to American tourists visiting Europe unless they are residing there (e.g. established residency, not just traveling through)
Probably also a distinction to make but T-Mobile USA's international roaming isn't meant for long-term usage and they'll terminate the account if more than half a year or so is outside the US.
I always thought of the cost implication for T-Mobile before this thread, not that they are probably more concerned with legal exposure of people changing residency and trying to remain as customers.
auf deutsch: "Fast 50 Millionen US-Konten betroffen: Telekom-Gruppe verschweigt Informationen über gehackte Personendaten", Matthias Monroy, Netspolitik.org, 16.08.2022:
Fast die Hälfte der Millionen Kund:innen von T-Mobile in den USA waren vor einem Jahr Opfer eines riesigen Datenverlustes. Die Deutsche Telekom als Mutterkonzern verletzt seitdem ihre selbst auferlegten Verpflichtungen zum Datenschutz.
My subject access request was not made pursuant to the GDPR. It was made pursuant to T-Mobile's contractually binding promises to act as a subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom, and DTAG's promises that all subsidiaries it is able to control would adopt and comply with its "binding corporate rules" on privacy.
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