Writing a domain-specific language on Racket is kinda Racket's main selling point. If you don't trust me, you can trust the people who made Arc and HN. Afterall back in 2007 you had other options. Some of them vastly popular even now (Rails, Django, PHP, Scala, ...).
There are some very valid reasons [1] why we should stay away from Racket: toxic community, toxic people... And come on: no one has ever really used Racket to write some decent nontrivial web application, documentation is awful (and, please, don't count HN here, cause HN is written in Arc).
Could you please stop creating accounts to post like this? I realize you have some strong opinions about Racket. I have no doubt that there is some truth in there. But what you're doing here is absolutely not what this forum is supposed to be for, and you're hurting it. If you would please stop, we'd be grateful.
He acknowledged that Racket has excellent documentation, a wide-ranging toolset, etc. All the good stuff you've heard elsewhere.
He criticizes the language-oriented model (in comparison to languages that people are familiar with but that allow embedded Deals, like Lua or Ruby) because creating a new DSL is antithetical to code that communicates with other programmers. This is fair, and a common criticism of Lisps: the complete freedom of the macro system means that individual programmers can create their own dialects quite easily, and other users of that code have a harder time working with it than in languages where there's not as much metaprogramming.
On the "toxic" front, one of the core team apparently asked a waitress a cringy question about higher education, referred to some other educators (at the creator's institution) as doofuses and the like, and was arrogant.
And at the end of it all, though he doesn't see a use for Racket's language-oriented model, he recommends learning and using it.
because creating a new DSL is antithetical to code that communicates with other programmers.
DSLs communicate wonderfully with the business users paying for the program. It also allows a programmer to match the jargon / industry speak used by the users.
I know that Cadence's ASIC design tools are based on a custom Lisp dialect. I've seen a presentation at a Lisp conference from an architect who was representing myriad building regulations as Lisp expressions e.g. minimum clearance between toilet and bathroom door. There was another presentation about Lisp software for simulating aircraft engine performance based on various input parameters.
I don't know how close these applications are to Racket's ideal but I imagine they're somewhere on that spectrum.
I've seen a presentation at a Lisp conference from an architect
If you start talking to older architects and civil engineers who where active in the early to mid 90s, you'll be surprised how many of them know (or at least knew) Lisp.
Not Racked based, but I'd say Cucumber/Gherkin. Yes it is absolutely overkill for small teams, but if you have a dedicated person who is not really a programmer but who is managing requirements between the developers and the stakeholders, Cucumber is amazing in that scenario.
The ones I know of are locked in corporate IT departments, but Zed Shaw in his "The ACL is Dead" talk[1] from 2008 describes the use of one in relation to permissions on documents with rules specified in the DSL.
> He criticizes the language-oriented model (in comparison to languages that people are familiar with but that allow embedded Deals, like Lua or Ruby)
Oh, I whish ruby had a more formal way to switch to DSLs - I love ruby, but can't stand meta-heavy/DSL-heavy subsystems. The rspec test system is a prime example (saved to some small degree by its excellent and detailed documentation): https://rspec.info/
> On the "toxic" front, one of the core team apparently ... was arrogant.
An ingredient that may contribute to judgment of this video testimony, is that the same person that describes this toxic environment accuses someone providing a different personal impression of the community of engaging in "micro-agression" in the video comments.
Hey, you're improving! You actually modified your spiel instead of only copy/pasting the last iteration of your smear campaign like last time. Way to go :D
PS : what happened to the "you can't make a web app in Racket" part?
(The troll also acknowledges that Arc is a neat language— apparently, they think that racket is a terrible language to write bad applications, but I guess it’s good enough to write a language to write good web applications in!)
(I have heard a Racket described as the “second best programming language, the best programming language is the one you use Racket to build!)
Racket's documentation isn't something I've ever heard criticized. It's extensive, well-written, and even has various formats for users at different levels of familiarity. I don't think I've run into another language whose documentation gave me as much confidence.
I would say that racket has one of the best tutorials ever made for any language. Specially with the reduced versions inside DrRacket. Also some books like How to Design Programs.
How to Design Programs is maybe my all time favorite programming book. BUT it is incredibly dense and you can't go to it for your first book. Realms of Racket is a good one though.
I watched this video (skimmed), it seems like the creator had a few incidents involving people in the racket community. I’m not a racket community participant or racket user, but every community has these issues. Honestly this feels like a really weird ax to grind against racket?
He's talking in measured terms about his own personal experience on his own personal vlog. It was probably cathartic for him (and for other people too.) No big deal.
