Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | badc0ffee's commentslogin

I liked the phrase "Aislop's fables".

"the Ghibli-inspired scenes that really, really love using every available shade of brown"

Also, Aislopica. He missed the opportunity to say Aislopica Fables.


Aislop's fables - Aesop's fables. That's pretty easy to see. What does Aislopica fables refer to?

Aesopica, an other name of Aesop's fables

Speaking for myself, I've been auto migrating since I got an iPhone 3GS in 2009. The only thing that needs serious cleanup is my music library.

This thing seems to be more about enforcing a political PoV than about avoiding logical fallacies.

All my attempts to comment on the UBI article (and not supporting UBI) said my comment was a dogwhistle, and/or had an overly negative tone. This topic, of all things, is absolutely worthy to challenge and debate.

Using this would have the effect of creating an echo chamber, where people who stay never benefit from having their ideas challenged.


Can you give some examples of comments you made which you feel were reasonable but got flagged?

Yeah I feel like this will funnel everyone's opinion into sounding like it was written by an AI.

Love the idea but the example they give with bears is absolutely hilarious. Calling bears dumb animals is offensive? God help us.


Hah, the idea is to have an example on the site that is not offensive -- we're not going to write something offensive down -- but where you can understand what it would be or could be. It lets you infer / understand the point without us actually writing something awful. (Maybe we can do it better, though.)

Bears seemed a pretty inoffensive target, plus our backend uses Python with beartype and that library is all about bear jokes.


Thankyou — I’d love to hear what you wrote, if you wouldn’t mind sharing?

We’ve tried to aim it not to enforce any specific view — that’s a design goal — but focus on how it will feel to the other person.

Also things like logical fallacies or other non-emotional flaws in comments (there’s a toxicity metric for example, or dogwhistles).

An echo chamber is the exact opposite of what we want. There are too many already. What we hope for is guided communication so different views _can_ be expressed.


It flagged me saying UBI by giving money to the rich was a form of negative transfers as "negativity" and said it was polarizing. I don't think it's ready for prime time.

If that is happening, that is a huge problem. We'll look at that right away.

We specifically don't want that to be the case. We want to encourage healthy, productive debate.

We may have the "dog-whistle" stuff over tuned.


the dog whistle tuning is absolutely over the top in its default setting.

Just turned it way down. I hope you find it better now!

Thanks, I agree. We dialed it way down.

I wrote "Obama sucks" and got Dogwhistle, Low Score, Low Effort, Objectionable Phrases, and Negative Tone.

I wrote "Trump sucks" and got Low Score, Low Effort, Negative Tone.

Definitely a double standard baked in


Double standard, or legitimate difference? Maybe Trump empirically sucks more?

(This is the sort of debate I really don't think tooling can fix.)


Ignoring what is hopefully sarcasm on the empirical part, it's a double standard because it assumes that saying Obama sucks must be a dogwhistle and tied to undertones of racism.

"Dogwhistle

The phrase "Obama sucks" can be interpreted as more than just a simple critique of a political figure; it has been used to express racist sentiments by implying that a Black president is less capable or worthy of respect. This reinforces harmful stereotypes and can contribute to a broader culture of disrespect and division."


I don't know that I've ever seen a reasonable accusation of 'dogwhistling' on HN. They always just make the accuser seem paranoid or evasive.

I’m not wasting my time accusing. Downvote, flag, move on. Maybe that’s why you didn’t see any.

I would think/hope that both of those comments would be flagged with even a small amount of moderation set.

Avoiding that kind of comment is exactly what we are trying to do, actually.


Yes I agree, but the problem I'm pointing out is that in a phrase as simple as "X person sucks" your system flagged one as implicitly racist because the person being criticized was black.

Nothing in "Obama sucks" implied any kind of racism. If it's so baked in that with a simple phrase like that it reaches for dogwhistles, how can anyone trust the objectivity of this?


I totally agree -- just saying "Obama sucks" shouldn't have racism become part of the equation. Excellent point that we'll stew on and try to make better.

So when can I expect your update to the american population?

Yep, I agree -- it is a double standard... but......

Very sensitive topic. We'll think hard on how to handle things like that.


[flagged]


>Should the model consider that more people consider one or the other to suck?

If it's teaching how to avoid logical fallacies, which includes appeals to the majority, the answer is an obvious 'no'.


In other opinion polls they back up that he doesn't suck. Either way who cares? That's not what the app is supposed to be about if it's teaching/correcting you how to argue/debate better.

You completely ignored the whole point of what I said, which is that even in a simple statement like "This person sucks" it added its own implicit connotations, namely that disliking someone who happens to be black is implicit racism. Imagine trying to learn how to really argue with that kind of teacher.


I'm really expanding on your point - that two humans can't even agree here. The AI probably has even less chance of resolving the multi-factorial scenario we're in.

AFAICT, Respectify is trying to address improvements via leveraged grammar using minimal context. Dis/agreement is incidental.

eg

* Noun1 is great.

* Noun2 is great.

Ideally would result in equal outcomes.


Even for “ice cream” and “genocide” as the two nouns?

As I understand the purpose, yes.

Whose discourse do you think the app would label as more toxic, Trump's or Obama's?

I mean yeah but it's not up to a comment-tone-fixer-upper to decide that, the ideal is some kind of neutrality for the sake of decorum, and one of the major issues that's causing political divide and (worse) movements towards extremism is that the two sides can't have a reasonable debate.

A tool like this COULD work, but I think the issue with this one is that it's built on top of an existing LLM with heaps of internet debate and their underlying ideals and what is and isn't acceptable baked in.

What a tool like this needs is heaps of honestly / fairly judged comments and feedback, and an extensive test suite that ensures neutrality by, for example, taking the same comment and like in this case changing names around - if it treats both sides the same then it passes.


But it's a hyphen, not a dash.

(Ducks)


At first, the purple links had me convinced that I'd already clicked on them.

What's funny is that wireshark/tshark were created (first as "Ethereal") as a "friendlier" tcpdump, with more protocol analyzers.

You can still buy portable DVD players with a laptop-sized screen, with composite in.

Other than that, you can buy relatively inexpensive converter boxes that take composite video and analog audio, and output HDMI.


In fact it was a miniaturized TI-990 minicomputer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-990

And yet they had one of the first hybrids (although not a plug-in hybrid) in the Prius.

Honda also was early in hybrids, but they like Toyota are also late on EVs.

The difference is probably philosophical. A (non-phev) hybrid is primarily an ICE car in every way. Building hybrids is building ICE cars with a little extra. Building EVs is different.

Honda and Toyota invested a lot in hybrid tech, they probably want to milk that investment more and the hydrogen distraction kept them from also investing in BEV tech. China was basically starting a car industry from scratch so didn’t have those sunk costs to worry about.

Factually correct, but you also missed the joke.

It was only kinda a joke. It's a joke in the same way that uncle on Facebook makes jokes. You know the one.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: