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This took quite a while. The idea had kicked around before, but basically, when Israel was thought to have one, the Soviets invented 'nonproliferation'. This was the theme of the hysteria that led to their triggering the 1967 war. God forbid the Jews have the capacity to protect themselves.

He even advised V I Lenin to emulate the same structure.

If you advance any ethical propositions at all it will be very easy to prove that they are mediated by Christian history in its orthodox forms. This holds even of ethics under Islam which is latently derived from orthodox Christianity in its origin matrix. It cannot be escaped without spectacular 'antimoral' radicalism, as Nietzsche spent his life proving in a hundred ways. It is different in the civilizations of the 'dharmic traditions', as people sometimes frame the distinction.

An easy way of seeing part way into this is to note that the ethical complaints we make against the church as institution are all founded on principles explicitly taught by the same church.


How are Islam's ethics derived from orthodox Christianity specifically? Muhammad's only likely encounter with Christianity was with Nestorianism, i.e. not orthodox.

If you mean that the Church has incorporated ethical systems into its teachings, then I'd agree, but it would also be true of any other religion.

But if you mean that ethics came from orthodox Christianity, or is predicated on the existence of Christ, I'd have to ask to elaborate, though I'm sure I misunderstand.

Virtue ethics were developed by Plato, arguably Kantian and utilitarian systems attenpt to come to ethics through reason and don't mention religion.


original gruber-swartz markdown has no spec, just perl program with many comical corner cases.

The spec is linked to in the article. Do you know how to click on a link, or do you use Braille?

That is an overview of the syntax the program supports. It's not even remotely a formal specification.

Yawn.

there is absolutely no specification. one who thinks there is has no idea what such words actually mean. thousands have burned their brains on this question

There is absolutely no point to your post. We are discussing GFM, which is also linked to in the article you didn't read.

Its good they cancelled this thread. In fact I read the post, which shows you are completely ignorant of the history of markdowns and the various basically scientific problems they have posed. Thus e.g. commonmark, the basis of gfm, was devised in consortium between github, pandoc (whose author composed the specification) and assorted other well known markdowns.

Ok, sycophant

Pandoc’s specific markdown has had these for 20 years. They are from latex itself not mathjax. You’d think the list would have talked him out of it if it was a problem. What legit use of $ as ‘dollar’ is missed by this spec?

> 8.13.1 Extension: tex_math_dollars

> Anything between two $ characters will be treated as TeX math. The opening $ must have a non-space character immediately to its right, while the closing $ must have a non-space character immediately to its left, and must not be followed immediately by a digit. Thus, $20,000 and $30,000 won’t parse as math. If for some reason you need to enclose text in literal $ characters, backslash-escape them and they won’t be treated as math delimiters.


Naive, and cloistered. Not a great look. Maybe 5 people and their friends use Pandoc, so it doesn’t have to be robust.

==> pandoc : stable 3.9.0.2 (bottled), HEAD

Swiss-army knife of markup format conversion

https://pandoc.org/

Installed (on request)

From: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/blob/HEAD/Formula/...

License: GPL-2.0-or-later

==> Installed Kegs and Versions

pandoc 3.9.0.2 (11 files, 274.7MB) [Linked]

==> Dependencies

Required (1): gmp

Recursive Runtime (1): all installed

==> Analytics

install: 31,898 (30 days), 119,598 (90 days), 369,388 (365 days)


Yawn. Nobody uses it to parse GFM unless they are over 60.

It is used almost entirely with gfm, the operation of gfm was in consultation. it was in this connection that the commonmark specification was formulated.

Seven years ago? Who cares?

> Maybe 5 people and their friends use Pandoc

The pandoc repository[1] has nearly 45k stars and 4k forks. It's embedded in Jupyter notebooks, which are used by data scientists the world over. The python wrapper for pandoc has 16 million downloads[2].

[1]: https://github.com/jgm/pandoc [2]: https://pypi.org/project/pandoc/


Great, but Jupyter notebooks aren’t written in Markdown.

Next?


They are, though. [1]

But maybe that's insufficient. Hugo[2], one of the most widespread static site generators in existence, supports Pandoc markdown flavors as well as general GFM.[3]

[1]: https://jupyter-notebook.readthedocs.io/en/stable/examples/N...

[2]: https://github.com/gohugoio/hugo

[3]: https://gohugo.io/content-management/formats/


They are not supported by GitHub’s GFM, and you are being incredibly bad faith about this fact.

If you are comfortable calling Markdown a futile exercise in avoiding proprietary control of a universal, simple document format for wide interoperability across natural languages, programming languages, and monopoly interests, then you and I are Microsoft vs Sun over Java in the 1990s.


The original Gruber-Shwartz format, which is in fact fundamentally a perl program attached to a brief expression of its intention, is not used by anyone except those who still use the perl program. Every other implementation avoids thousands of corner cases present in the perl, while of course producing its own.

Boring, useless content. You must love the sound of your own voice when you read back the nonsequiturs you have offered in this comment section.

If it really was this simple GitHub would have publicized this spec instead of being intentionally vague and opaque about it.

But you know what’s best.


The spec is the commonmark spec together with extensions of the type the commonmark spec was devised to make possible. People know better than to leave such a 'language' with a 'spec' that only really resides in a perl program, of all things. There are lists upon lists upon lists of corner cases the the perl does differently from every other program that, in the first years, reimplemented it. All of them show the perl does not meet the intention.

You are such a bore. Read the motivating preamble in Gruber's spec- that's the part the GFM standardization process stayed faithful to.

Up until Microsoft got involved.


Weaving saplings and coppice sprouts and growing them in place is incredibly ancient, maybe neolithic. Julius Caesar was freaked out by the living woven defenses of the Nervi in Gaul. In general the deeper you go into the past the more people were aware of the possibilities of sprouting wood, coppicing, etc.

British hedgerows are (sometimes? often?) woven: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-english-hedgerow-21854933....

Wiki talks about Caesar in reference to hedges: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgelaying


It's not the hedge that is actually woven, it's the binders at the top. Made of hazel, their purpose is to hold the stakes solid whilst the living hedge recovers after being pleach cut and laid over.

It's a very enjoyable craft. Last year I planted up about 600 metres of new hedge that should be ready for me to lay in about ten years.


1/(x-y) has nothing remotely like the power of his operator. The guy is not stupid.


It generates the same class of functions. Read the comments and links in this thread.


I did.


You are taking `exp` and `ln` to require infinite series, because you aren't taking his operator as primitive.


The American presence was in opposition to the Soviet Union. There was a Cold War. It is very easy to show that the Soviet role in the production of Islamisant terrorism is infinitely greater. It is a universal feature of 21st c anti-yankee claptrap that it simply memory holes the Soviet Union.

Unlike Uncle Sam, the Soviet Union no longer exists, so the Economist, written by well-heeled 30-something media class types, sees nothing to blame.


It's strange the article quotes so much from it, but doesn't link the BASIC source itself


It's squirreled away on Disquette 003 on the Poptronics Dialector site: https://dialector.poptronics.fr/dialector_documents/ADisquet...


Haha, thanks. I am amusing myself trying to get claude to figure out what I need to reproduce it, and how to use the emulator at https://dialector.poptronics.fr/ partly to reveal some of the elements outside the program, e.g. KAT OWL FACE images


Also trying to run this on actual Apple IIe. Have the BASIC but stuck on the same problem. Binary files OWL, KAT, FACE, all of that. Using Claude too to help. Have emailed the Poptronics team too but wondering if anyone here has come across them.


Author here. Funny who you can run into on HN. Anyway, worthy project.

These images: https://dialector.poptronics.fr/dialector_documents/ADisquet...

Plus this converter: https://github.com/KrisKennaway/ii-pix

...should get you closer. You'll still be missing a few files though, the full listing of the original disk contents (all the images, etc) is here: https://dialector.poptronics.fr/dialector_documents/ADisquet...

And yeah, as durakot pointed out it's Beagle Basic.


Amazing - thank you for stopping by too. Super helpful. Will come back with anything else that I find too. Fun project.



It does:

> At the risk of getting a bit esoteric, I want to spend a moment with the actual source code to Dialector [...]


He makes many quotations, but doesn't give the (reconstructed) source. The quotations made me want to see the rest. As kosmavision points out it's visible at https://dialector.poptronics.fr/dialector_documents/ADisquet... The emulator at https://dialector.poptronics.fr/ prints a sort of trace on the right hand side, which was helpful as I was asking claude what was going on.


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