Google Bard has interesting information when asked what happens to my data if a plan is restructured and my existing data exceeds the new plan's allowance. It seems the answer is "it depends".
"If I cancel my additional storage, will all the files/documents that took up the additional space, be deleted? Or will I still have access to them?"
"You will still have access to all your files but, if you have used all storage you won't be able to add or create NEW files until you have space available."
Which sounds like you're right, unless the Product Expert was wrong.
The fact that this comment chain is about 7 deep trying to figure out whether the customer was given enough notice or not I think is also evidence that Google has a terrible UX for this anyway.
If your data is going to be deleted, it should be painfully obvious well in advance.
I don't think the depth of this comment chain has anything to do with the UX design. The words on that warning are unequivocally interpretable as "the data will not be deleted."
At the end of the day, it doesn't even matter if hidden in the terms of service or somewhere if it is made clear that the data will be deleted. It doesn't even matter if it is clear to @andrewmutz and @garblegarble that the data will be deleted[0]. What matters is if not thinking the data would be deleted is a reasonable interpretation. Full stop. It also matters that when explicit communication (unequivocally interpreted as slated for deletion) that the user was given 7 days, which was not even enough time, especially considering Google's egress rates.
There's a lot of this on HN lately and I'm not sure why. Communication is fuzzy people, I'm not sure why that's surprising. But when there's disagreement don't ask yourself which is right or wrong, but if a reasonable interpretation was made. Because communication is like an autoencoder: there's what's in your head (input), what you say (lossy compressed intermediate latent), and what is received (decompressed information with imputation). There's too many attempts to defend a believed objective reality which just is absurd (ironically making the view less objective).
And, importantly, RTFA
[0] Obviously these two are reading between the lines. It is not a bad interpretation and we often should practice this, especially to be on the safe side, but it's clear that there is inference, so what's wrong with the comments is their strong assertions that the communication was obvious. One may also make the argument that Techdirt isn't telling the full story or timeline, but that's also a different issue and inferential.
"google product experts" aren't generally google employees and aren't speaking for google.
i.e. that support site is mostly user to user help, which is perhaps an indictment on google in general, but sadly in this case can't be used for saying "where google says".
> sadly in this case can't be used for saying "where google says".
I think we're looking at very different things.... there's a screenshot of a literal official email from Google, under the Google Workspace Team. Not sure where you're getting "Google product experts". Did you mean to reply to a different comment?
if you're referring to something else, I missed that reference, so my apologies then.
I do think google gave sufficient time to move off. I also don't think a "workspace" being in read only mode was ever meant to be a permanent position for that google workspace. i.e. it was meant that "we weren't going to suddenly delete you data if you were over quota, but its your responsibility to get under quota or your account will be at risk".
though if you can point to the official email from google (I'd have to find the ones they sent me, unsure if I kept or deleted them).
I apologize, I forgot that was in a comment above. Personally I'm not concerned with what the product experts said but rather the official from Google emails I'm talking about are in the screenshot of the article where it doesn't say anything about removing or deleting data. I'm also not concerned if you have to click links for more information or Google to figure out Google's policy. What matters is what's in the direct email.
> i.e. it was meant that "...its your responsibility to get under quota or your account will be at risk".
In person to person language I think we can rely on inference because there's good feedback mechanisms to resolve (like was done here). But in corporate communication I don't think you have the same luxury. Especially when you're a corporation that has no person to talk to to resolve misunderstandings. Instructions must be explicit and to such a degree that no reasonable person could misinterpret. It's why they hire all those lawyers and that's what a court of law would hold them to. I think given the emails shown that there's reason to believe his data would not be deleted until the explicit 7 day notice.
> I do think google gave sufficient time to move off.
The account was given 60 days grace on May 11, 2023.
It’s currently December 15, 2023.
Google Enterprise (Unlimited) accounts are subject to the same 750GB/day limits (I have one of these accounts, my account has also gone RO).
As of today, it’s been 218 days since the notice that the account was over quota and in grace period.
In 218 days, you can download (assuming 100% efficiency) 163TB.
The user has >200TB stored in their drive.
The math doesn’t check out.
EDIT: > As of today, it’s been 218 days since the notice that the account was over quota and in grace period.
Up until that point, the user was still contracted to, and paying for, an unlimited storage solution. Any suggestions that the onus is on the user to be migrating their data out while still paying for a working solution is insane. The onus is on the provider to give the user time to migrate after the terms have changed. Unless we consider Google to be the Sith, in which case, yes, pray they don’t change the terms of the deal any more.
you can upload 750GB a day, you can download 10TB a day.
in about 2 months, I was able to get out over 100TB a data (using a 500mbps connection, wasn't downloading 24/7 but close to somewhere in the 25-50% of the time, and that math does check out).
>> In what world would it be reasonable to expect Google to pay thousands of dollars per year indefinitely to store your data for free?
Expect condescending comments when if you state things that are outrageous. Especially after responding to a comment that actively demonstrated that they did not read the article. If you disagree that this is a reasonable interpretation maybe clarify that. But this is also all you said, so I'm not sure what you expect me to read it as.
I think there is also sufficient reason to believe you did not read the chain of comments either. This is kinda like jumping into the middle of a conversation while having been zoned out. Sufficient evidence because you are revisiting something already discussed. If you would like to argue that his interpretation was unreasonable you should have provided reasoning to it. Don't play the victim here. You gave a low quality, emotional, and exaggeratory comment. No matter how good the argument is in your head, you can't expect a high quality response nor be upset when someone makes a quip remark. (idk why I'm even responding this one tbh)
__There was no ad hominem attack.__ I responded to your claim, and by quoting the article. I have not dismissed your claim based on your character nor even attacked your character. But I'll concede that I made a slight and my comment was condescending (see above for reasons). Additionally, my slights are not subverting the argument nor detracting from it. If you need clarification, an ad hominem attack is "you should ignore anything [insert user] has to say because they are dumb and voted for [insert political enemy]". See how it doesn't respond to what you said, moves the conversation away, and now places a new standard which must be rebutted which is not actually related to the subject matter? That's what makes it a logical fallacy. We have none of those qualities. Yet now here we are, not talking about the article or the contents...
You, on the other hand, did in fact make a logical fallacy. But that's already been addressed and we need not be more explicit nor derail the conversation further.
> This is not mentioned in the article but it is mentioned in other comments
Pro tip: do not assume the person you are replying to has read every comment under a post. You may assume they have read the direct chain of comments leading to the current point, but no more. If you are tired of saying the same thing maybe instead of saying "as I've already commented" maybe link your comment. Or chill, because frankly this isn't an issue of high importance and you don't have to really defend either situation because none of have a real horse in the race so idk why emotion is high. You should also only assume the context of the direct thread. If you want to claim that the author is hiding truth and that there was in fact clearer explicit ample warnings given, do so here, or provide a reference to your other comment. You cannot assume I am going to read through or search all >500 comments or search your username. Because frankly, I'm responding to what you said, not who you are. If your context is everything you said, including other comments unrelated to this direct chain, the contextual issue is with you not me.
tldr: low quality replies don't get high quality responses and I'm not going to search for every comment you made
I respectfully disagree. They were clearly given enough notice - from personal experience as I’ve commented already, as well as from sibling comments.
If you are still “figuring this out”, I daresay it is simply because you haven’t used the paid service and seen the frequent nagging emails about the transition.
Which is entirely likely, given that Google's "Product Experts" aren't employees with access to internal communication channels, they're just volunteers working for internet points.
I'm no great defender of Google but point some fallacies the article pushes:
"regarding a woman losing her entire Google account after one of her 7 year old sons, messing around with a camera and uploading the videos to YouTube, published a video of himself naked. For obvious reasons, that’s a problem"
If a 7 year old found a parent's gun, walked into the street and shot a neighbor to death accidentally; the parent is also still responsible and accountable.
"he had obtained and published some leaked video footage from Fox News." and "he was able to access the footage by using publicly accessible URLs to obtain the content."
https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website-permissions/websites/
"As a general rule, it is wise to operate under the assumption that all works are protected by either copyright or trademark law unless conclusive information indicates otherwise. A work is not in the public domain simply because it has been posted on the Internet (a popular fallacy) or because it lacks a copyright notice (another myth). For information on these and other public domain issues, see the section, “The Public Domain.”"
Related, search for "OpenAI lawsuits over copyrighted materials it uses to train ChatGPT".
The fallacy you push is that the legal process in case your child shoots someone is the same as the private and inscrutable process that Google follows to ban people, which it isn't
I'm in my early 60's, I guess when I was young I'd have called me elderly. I however, have been a technologist since I was around 9 years old, got it from my Dad. I'd say most my age even if not into technology aren't averse to it or unaware of it. But, there are definitely some elderly who really don't get technology at all and there are some in their 20's who are the same way. Those individuals need to be protected. The onus should be on the corporation more than the individual; not solely on the individual.
No, the onus should be on the law, because corporations will do nothing "for th greater good" if they're not forced to do so. The onus is on the individual to help other individuals around them that need it, and on the individual to petition their law makers to do what needs to be done.
Putting the onus on the corporations is the one thing that's guaranteed, with a long and storied proven track record, of not working.
More like in the 24*60 - 5 minutes between brewing and grinding again the next day. In all seriousness: it can takes surprisingly little time for ground wet coffee to form mold. Think 48h range especially when it's relatively hot.
Can't tell whether this is trolling or serious. Breaking the end-to-end principle has had profound effects on the Internet as a whole for the last 2 decades, centralization being the most obvious one.
Citation needed on "breaking privacy". You have at least 2^64 IPv6 addresses per household, cycle through them and stop worrying about IP tracking.
Oh, and I can give citation on how NAT breaks something. Until the day we can magically remove application-level gateways[0] I consider NAT a fundamentally broken hack.
Rob Piercy: "Do neuroscientists understand how the brain works?"
Stephen Smith: "The numbers get out of hand really quick for brains. The number of synapses in one human brain is equal to the number of stars in 5000 Milky Way’s."
