Reddit is heavily moderated. The likes of Gab get banned from app stores and hosting providers; KiwiFarms shows that even if you self-host (at a level beyond most regular people's ability and resources), if you offend the wrong people then you'll be cut off the internet.
Kiwi farms was a haven for degenerate anti social wanna be mass murderer. No sane business wants that association. No one is silencing these people, they are being lawfully discriminated against (refused service) for their reprehensible behavior. That’s freedom of association in action. The laws prohibiting the government from acting against someone for their words do not apply to the individual. In other words, tolerance only extends insofar as the infringers intolerance can be tolerated without relinquishing inalienable rights.
Off topic, but kiwi farms is a weird hill to plant a flag in on this topic.
> No one is silencing these people, they are being lawfully discriminated against (refused service) for their reprehensible behavior.
They're not just being refused service by hosting companies or the like, ISPs are not routing to them. That's new, and that's what I think is worth "planting a flag" about; it's not a newspaper refusing to print your articles, it's the post office refusing to ship your newspaper. If that's not being silenced then I don't know what is.
Additionally, for a time the SSL Certificate Authority in Greece was threatening to remove their https:// certificate for “unspecified violations of some clause.”
They are still on TOR, and currently they are back up on sneed.today (not sure why the old domain didn't come back yet?). The site seems to be hosted (I guess?) by TerraHost, a Norwegian company which is owned by the american company Epik, and which refuses censorship. I assume the people wanting to take kiwifarms down will have to go to the upstream providers of Terrahost, since they won't bend the knee.
The fact that they're using Terrahost as a provider isn't new, but the difference here, I guess, is that now they are using an IP owned by TerraHost rather their Null IP/ASN connecting to TerraHost and then to upstream providers such as GTT, and so on...
Not sure what difference this makes, and I'm too much of a noob to understand what is going on exactly, so I might be talking bullshit here. But it seems to be working. Be that as it may, NGOs and institutions who defend the free internet should be opposing the censorship of kiwifarms, but they aren't because everybody knows that most of these institutions have an ideological bias...
>institutions who defend the free internet should be opposing the censorship of kiwifarms
This argument is unsupported by your comment. What value does kf create? Far as I can tell it only destroys value with their trail of suicides and bigoted behavior.
Distinction without a material difference. This is only slightly to mail delivery services refusing delivery to homes with aggressive animals. In this case it’s telecom operators not enabling violent criminals that could create liability if left unaddressed.
> Kiwi farms was a haven for degenerate anti social wanna be mass murderer.
No it wasn’t. Both in life and in death William Atchison was made fun of by the members of multiple communities, gaining the posthumous nickname “Couch Cuck”. A “haven” for murderers would not obsessively archive information relating to murderers, such as social medias (which consistently delete the information to avoid being associated), prior convictions, etc with the intent to study and publicly shame them. One can argue of the efficacy of this, but it is no different than what MSM does. In fact, KiwiFarms can be attributed to the destruction of a CP/animal torture ring and multiple arrests, due to their archival efforts and Internet sleuthing.
Additionally, on the topic of “reprehensible behavior”, companies like CloudFlare happily accept money from animal abuse websites. And under every metric KiwiFarms is legal under US law. So while companies are legally allowed to disassociate for almost any reason, we have to ask why illegal websites remain while legal ones are disassociated. And considering CloudFlare initially sided with KiwiFarms, it truly is not as clear cut as “they found the content disagreeable”.
On topic to your off topic, I was definitely not expecting KiwiFarms to mentioned either.
I don’t think you are aware of the depth of depravity users of kf engaged in, regularly. I said wanna be murderers, you know, the weird kids with poor social skills that probably have shit home lives and get bullied/ostracized harshly. When they find community on these boards they also find recruiters for all sorts of awful communities from neo nazis to pedophiles to whatever.
>A “haven” for murderers would not obsessively archive information relating to murderers, such as social medias (which consistently delete the information to avoid being associated), prior convictions, etc with the intent to study and publicly shame them.
This is not logical. Many murderers study infamous murder cases to learn how to be better murderers. For some it may merely be a morbid curiosity, for others, it’s research. You cannot discern the intentions from the comments, but rather the outcomes, which speaks voluminously; if you’d bother to look for the reports on this.
>KiwiFarms can be attributed to the destruction of a CP/animal torture ring and multiple arrests, due to their archival efforts and Internet sleuthing.
And 4chan got a terrorist training camp bombed. And Reddit got an innocent killed during the hunt for the Boston bomber. These are not examples of uniformly good character, even the worst criminals have soft spots. Nazis made some wondrous technology, should we forgive their attempted genocides and eugenics?
Re cloud flare, I support shaming them for this support of bad actors and hurting their bottom line but that is off topic goal post moving.
> I don’t think you are aware of the depth of depravity users of kf engaged in, regularly.
Alright, can you prove they funnel others into such depraved communities?
> This is not logical.
By your own “logic” anyone who studies crime is practicing to be a mass murderer, which is objectively not true. If they were truly some murderous training ground, why is their so little as a result?
> Nazis made some wondrous technology, should we forgive their attempted genocides and eugenics?
Well the USA, Europe, and many others certainly did when harvesting their best minds. However that is besides the point, as KiwiFarms has done nothing comparable. They say mean things and archive actions taken by others in public. Making fun of others is seen as rude, however it is not illegal. If it was false and caused damages it could be slander/libel, however that has yet to be the case to my knowledge.
> I support shaming them for this support of bad actors
The problem is that there is inconsistency here. You and many others do not campaign CloudFlare to remove illegal websites, or even websites in a similar vein to KF, yet you urge them to remove a single legal (albeit unsavory) gossip forum? If this stance was uniform I could understand it better. As it stands it simply comes off as intellectually dishonest.
The KiwiFarms issue is less what was said online in a club like forum context and more what was done in the real world by members and coordinated from KiwiFarms.
As far as I can see that was a smear campaign if not an outright false flag. The specific post that was mentioned as grounds for cutting it off was removed by moderators in less than 15 minutes, and was posted by an account that hadn't posted anything else.
But once you reach 109 times it rolls back to being coincidental right?
Those qui know, know.
In any case, lets not be deemed offensive for harboring thoughts of rebellion against the overlords lest we be yeested from the platform for attempting to pique the curiosity of those not entirely lobotomized by the oppression machine yet. Such fallacious behaviours shall be left without scrutiny while we all dance together under a rainbow of landmines, minimum wage and proxy wars funded by alphabet companies ever-seeking to exercise greater and greater control of the human mind at scale.
Yes, let's strive not to offend others, for that way we will surely make the most progress, ignoring all prior knowledge and our very evolutionary mechanisms so we don't make lines on a page that induce rage in the untrained mind.
Those that can't hold a thought without judgment, can't think critically, yet they are the ones we decide to put in charge of our social narrative?
Can you give an example of a mainstream view that is banned? I’m genuinely curious. I wonder if we will have different definitions of mainstream? It seems like a global audience of 5,000 might be mainstream and warrant a home according to some of the accounts here, whereas I would argue that this is still incredibly niche and these people might not expect to find anywhere in real life that would tolerate their speech either.
why should Mozilla let Microsoft or anyone else dictate what they support?
I agree that Windows 7 should be dropped, but only because its quite old, not because Microsoft has dropped support for it. Frankly Windows 7 is better than Windows 11, I think many would agree with that.
It's a dependency, and unless you're going to devote resources into testing and proving that support on your own, it doesn't make sense to extend it past what the dependency's support lifecycle is.
Which is why most places are dropping W7 this year. Microsoft's last extended security update was this year. The age is kind of irrelevant, if Microsoft wanted to support it for another 5 years, then places like Mozilla would continue as long as people used it.
> Frankly Windows 7 is better than Windows 11, I think many would agree with that.
I would not. Windows 10 has improvements to the compositor, scheduler, settings and seemingly other things that make it faster in many applications, even on low resource systems. It has other features (like HDR, DirectML) that make it far better for some more cutting edge apps.
One could argue the "stock" config of Windows 10 and 11 is really trashy... Which is true. But its not really a fair argument, as OEMs loaded Windows 7 systems with bloatware (where Microsoft is doing more of that these days).
is this a joke? ever tried user management with Windows 10/11? its a hellscape of clicking through the Control Panel, the Settings app, and countless crosslinked pages with no rhyme or reason. same for microphone levels. same for device management.
Long live the PowerShell. Yes, old control panel was much more manageable. Most of the important settings have been hidden from the end-user these days.
I am normally a Linux or MacOS user exclusively, but recently I reinstalled Windows 11 on my somewhat recently purchased Lenovo Yoga 7i. I tried to get as far as I could getting as much of my configuration codified with PowerShell in a git repo[0].
I got really far with it and the end result was super nice, I thought! But a lot of the stuff I wanted was very deeply buried.
Also, the defaults that Microsoft assaults Windows users with are insane! I can't believe what Microsoft gets away with.
And you still can't open multiple instances of the settings app at the same time. God forbid you want to check your network settings and printer settings at the same time when trying to troubleshoot an issue with a network printer.
Aside from potential security issues newer versions of windows always provide new APIs and changes to old ones. Keeping support requires keeping track of that and testing, which costs resources.
There is actually dilemma about potential security issues; since the development has been stopped, no new features are introduced and hence no new bugs.
Windows 7 is quite battle-tested.
Can the system be so stable that there aren't security issues anymore?
On the other hand, one is too much if it is not fixed.
> windows always provide new APIs and changes to old ones
I don't think that is visible or significant. Windows changes APIs but always provides backwards compatibility. It is the major reason why it is dominating in many industry areas. You can run Windows 2000 apps in Windows 11.
> I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost.
this is why Apple is a trillion dollar company. because people mindlessly buy any new thing they put out, regardless if it makes sense or not.
yes, because you haven't provided any evidence for these "mindless" consumers so i'm not going to try and debate that point (besides calling apple customers mindless and then saying thats why they have 3 trillion dollar market cap is nearing troll territory)
my point is:
if i (mindlessly perhaps?) concede the point that those consumers are mindlessly spending money on useless things... then so what? its their money, let them do what they want with it. why make value judgments?
because we aren't talking about candy here. we are talking about purchases that are hundreds or thousands of dollars. and people are normalizing making these purchases yearly. sure if you're dumb and rich go ahead buy what you want. but the culture pushes this mindset on people who cant afford it as well.
unless you have the money to blow, then having critical thinking is an important skill. to ask yourself "is this a waste of money?", "should I really be buying one of these every year?"
>we are talking about purchases that are hundreds or thousands of dollars
...with their own money. For items they see a use for. What they consider to be worth it.
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>to ask yourself "is this a waste of money?", "should I really be buying one of these every year?"
"Hm, is this worth it to me? Yes." There you go.
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I agree every year is a bit much, but I'm not trying to stop people from spending their money in way they find useful. It's not my money. I'm ok with that.
Ah, but somebody could man-in-the-middle your request and change it around so it looks like I said some really dumb stuff (dumber than what I actually said, I mean)
Ok, and then? Would that be so bad? It would be found out pretty fast if it had any real world consequences. You could just comment on HN saying that your words have been maliciously modified and that would be the end of it. Or you could tweet about it. Or use any number of ways to voice your point of view.
seeing that freaks face made me physically shudder. If they were smart they would distance this product from him as much as possible. it should be painfully obvious that he is toxic for this and any brand.
pay him whatever, let him stay in charge, but please for the love of god STOP PUTTING him as the face of anything.
I dunno, he's kinda growing on me. If people can like Elon, why can't they like the Zuck? Zuck is clearly more level headed than Elon, which to me makes him more likeable. Embracing the zuck monikor was a real power move, given that up until this point most people use that name in a disparaging manner :D
I tried signing up for Oracle Cloud and got the below message. After that I took the exact same card and signed up with 4 other providers. Fuck you Oracle.
> Error processing transaction
> We're unable to complete your sign up. Common sign up errors are due to: (a) Using prepaid cards. Oracle only accepts credit card and debit cards (b) Intentionally or unintentionally masking one's location or identity
Is it a prepaid virtual card? Cloud providers these days tend to block such cards. With so many horror story about getting unexpected huge bills, it would be sensible to use prepaid virtual card, but I guess cloud providers would never risk potential non-payment for allowing prepaid virtual card.
the point is, currently NO ROAD is the Autobahn. thats not a balance, thats censorship.