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I also hate it when kids have fun


You probably joke but I'm an avid motorcycle rider and when I ride in the 30 km/h (20 mph) zones in my city, these kids race past me. No matter it scares the shit out of me, when an accident occurs then the injuries will be horrific.

I'm not against them, to be sure. I don't know the solution, really. Maybe campaign for helmets, but how effective is that going to be?


> I don't know the solution

Fat middle aged men could start riding them or instead of shouting at them as they ride by Karens could cruise past on theirs.

That ought to do it.


It seems to have stopped "6 7..." I understand even the British PM helped out with the cringe


Look I get it, I deserve an "ok boomer" but they have got at BEST cycle protection, certainly not a full face helmet, rarely shoes even. It's a disaster waiting to happen. There were 14 deaths in Queensland in 2025 for this class of vehicle, way above normal level.


You know? Since about 1980 I did wheelies too, on my road bicycle. And up to 70kph on flat grounds for up to two minutes. Then having to go down to 55 to 60, which I could hold up for an hour, depending on weather, fitness (varying). No helmet, ever.

Also no broken bones, or having caused others to crash. Annoyances maybe, but such is youth :-)

I'm of the opinion that this "disaster waiting to happen" thinking is a disaster by itself. I may concede that some of these kids are too reckless too often to be good for them, because e-bikes make it too easy to go that fast, without having developed the ability to handle these speeds safely first, or knowing where not to(sharp curves, rain, wet leafs, sand, fine gravel, etc(Did I mention I rode iced roads in winter?)).

But in principle the ride is getting more stable at higher speeds, because gyroscopically stabilized by the spinning wheels.

I see it as a darwinian filter of fitness. Sieving out stupid. Just like that.

If you don't give youth the chance to navigate that, there will be more and more unfit.

No amount of laws will change that.


I don’t think I’ve ever met someone claiming to be able to easily maintain 70 km/h. Maintaining 50 km/h for an hour puts you well into top professional territory, especially if riding solo.

There’s basically no chance you got to that level without serious training, coaching, and a lot of experience.

That is a very different situation from just using a credit card and being able to zip down the road at 50-60 km/h. People have been killed by these fat bikes (as in, a pedestrian being struck), because fat bikes are significantly heavier than road bikes, and kids with no experience drive them in places where pedestrians do occur.

I doubt you were pulling 50+ km/h in the city centre, or on the beach promenade. Yet this is what we see with fat bikes.

The laws aren’t designed to protect the rider. They’re designed to protect the uninvolved bystanders who just want to enjoy a stroll.


Yeah. I'm hearing that over and over again :-)

The thing is, I lived where I had several routes of about 2km length with several steep inclines of 12% in them, right from my door. And not much else to do. So I did that, first on a road-bicycle with 26" rims for youths, which I grew out of very fast.

Got a bigger frame with 27 x1 1/4 then.

Now when that was new to me, I've been KO after riding up there, even needed to step of the bike, some times. But I persisted. Got myself some 'mountain gears' for the rear hub(ten speed only, so five mountain gears back there).

That helped. But I grew out of these, too! Because I didn't need them anymore! Installed the normal ones back, and thundered uphill as if it was nothing, being just warmed up enough to thunder over the mostly flat, and excellently paved ways going through the forest on the high plateau.

Giving it all, until absolute exhaustion, pulsating tunnelvision, nearly 'grey-out'. Again and again. By myself. No coaching whatsoever. Until I didn't have these grey-outs anymore. I later discovered this is called "Interval Training".

Topped that by installing cranks two centimeters longer than usual, and installing 'speed gearing' front and right, to get an even higher transmission ratio.

Where only 3 to 4 speeds were really usable for me. The rest I had no use for(most of the times). I started mostly in the eight gear, carefully, to not burn rubber, because tires were expensive for me. Didn't help much though, because even with that gearing the back wheel slipped when I pushed down hard from stand in tenth gear.

So wheelie it was, because why not? Whoo hoo hoo!

> I doubt you were pulling 50+ km/h in the city centre

Of course I've been, to show off! :) Sustained for my way to school for about 10km, without breaking a sweat, not arriving wet and stinky. Even in bad weather. Because that took me 15 minutes max, and public transport would have taken me 45 minutes to an hour. I tested. And refused.

(Imagine the surprised faces of some girls in my class, seeing me arriving in time, after I waved to them in the tram they rode, at the start of the trip(Heart Heart Heart beating sooo fast(Theirs). Ooooo wow!(Giggle))

At the time I made up to 300km per day, which I didn't even notice at first, because all I ever cared for was moving the 'needle' to the right as far as possible for as long as I could. A neighbor looking at my speedometer noticed that, and of course couldn't believe it :-)

Now that wasn't the rule, but it 'happened' again and again. 150km to 200km was more normal.

When I've been out of money for spare parts I ran 'almost-marathon' up there, just 39km instead of the usual 42.x. Sometimes two times, after a short pause, and a meal, back home. I didn't feel good until I had that sort of exercise. Shrug?

One could say my power was equivalent to a light motorcycle with up to 60cc. 50cc I always won against. 80cc I've been chanceless against, except if the rider switched and coupled clumsily, but not for long, they always won.

What else? I could jump over closed turnpikes, and the hoods of (police)cars. Still can do, btw.

> The laws aren’t designed to protect the rider. They’re designed to protect the uninvolved bystanders who just want to enjoy a stroll.

I actively avoided pedestrians, meaning going slow in the forest on weekends, or not going fast at all along the river. Only during bad weather when there only were few people, or none at all.

Racing the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinpfeil_(Schiff)

Also not harassing them in the pedestrian zones downtown, just slowly curving around them, sitting upright, hands off the handlebar. Sometimes from still afar(when they were standing in clusters with no way around them), to not disturb them by ringing the bell, instead saying loudly ring, ring and making "parting the water" motions with my hands :-)

Maybe it's a cultural thing?

Had different relations with most car drivers, though. They always honking, me always flipping them the bird, because I've been just going within their flow, instead of the curb, without forcing them to slow down, so fuck off? (Yes, I knew about dead/blind angle already, and rode accordingly)

With all that said let me intone Darth Vader here: "I find your lack of faith disturbing!"

/now playing Born to be wild...


Great story, and I believe you. I go through similar slope to work, 5 to 15%, 120 m altitude difference. Doing it daily since Covid has improved my fitness a lot. I fully believe that doing something like you in my teenager days would have shaped me differently.


Holy shit. Beast.


Not really. Just 75+kg to 85kg at about 176cm to 181cm. Still grew up at the beginning.

I may look athletic, but am no Hulk.


I usually end my rides at 24-28 kmh average and outside of cyclists and e-bikes the amount of people that ride faster than me is pretty much zero. 70 is completely absurd, especially for "youth".

I don’t really care if a bunch of reckless kids want to gamble with their lives, but the place to do it is clearly on the street, not on the sidewalk. Those ebikes are pretty much dirt bikes, and nobody sane argues those should slalom between pedestrians, just like cars or motorcycles don’t drive on sidewalks. I don’t want to constantly be on the lookout for a 60 kmh vehicle careening right into me whenever I’m outside, which increasingly happens with food delivery "bikes" as well. There’s no place for them on crowded beaches either.

Wanna go as fast as cars? Cool, do it on the streets, it’s what they’re built for. Helmet (or even clothing) optional, I suppose, it really isn’t my problem.


55kph is about how fast Remco Evenepoel just did a flat 12km time trial in the UAE tour, to win it. I think you’re being a touch overconfident if you think you can hold that for an hour.


I didn't care that much about these things at first, until others noticed the distances on my speedometer, or have seen me in action, when we had the same routes, speeding by them without even noticing them. Except when they honked their horn, or later talked to me about that.

All I can say is that this disturbed me, so I made sure the speedometer wasn't lying to me. By doing many rounds on an empty running track, to check if the distance counting is right. Confirmed by measuring trip distances on maps, and comparing the stopped times for that. Further confirmed by comparing car-trip times by "progressive" drivers between locations, and mine. It all checks out. No matter if mostly flat, or hilly terrain.

(Nowadays even in alpine terrain, going from about 2500m altitude up to 4400m, and got cited for reckless driving, because doing 90kph downhill where only 15mph were allowed. Shrug)

Oh! And no doping, btw...


The current one hour world record is 56.792 km, if you can hold 55-60 km/h for an hour you should give it a go.


I don't really care, as I didn't from the beginning because I've found popular, organized sports unsatisfactory. And Tour de France mostly unimpressive at the times, considering I had a much more heavy bike, and no car with a spare standing by in case of flat tires or other mishaps. I also did most of this in normal traffic, needing to stop at traffic lights, crossings, whatever. And watching out for all the broken glass, all the times.

From https://osm.org/go/0GIDMKQGO--?m= to

https://osm.org/go/0GC~DS4_r?m= in 25 to 30 minutes, depending on weather, traffic, whatever.

Maybe gulping down a can of coke, orange juice, isotonic sports drink, in no more than five minutes. Going back, usually 1 to 2 minutes slower, because of wind coming from the south, which is funneled there from within the Rhine valley out into the open "Kölner Bucht"(Bay of Cologne?).

Did this at least a few dozen times in this times.

Going from https://osm.org/go/0GJGHYJiY?m= to

https://osm.org/go/0GC~DS4_r?m= again.

This time with a classmate on a much better bike, and member of a cycling sports club.

In nineteen minutes! Classmate almost collapsed on arrival. Though the first third to quarter of that track goes slightly downhill. Anyway, don't remember the time back, because I didn't want to give my classmate health problems, so we took it slowly.

Then, in another temporary 'home turf' for about a year, from here https://osm.org/go/0GI2sXyvp-?m= to

https://osm.org/go/0GJpBsflN?m= which is very hilly with many steep inclines, ups and downs, on all available routes.

Twentyone minutes! Up to 25 on my way back. Did this at least several dozen times in that time. "Progressive" car drivers take 25 to 30 minutes on that route. 'Normies' more like 35 to 40.

Also did countless other tours from my first OSM-link to Aachen, Koblenz, Hagen, Düsseldorf, and up into the Eifel, to the big radio-telescope in Effelsberg, then mostly downhill through curved roads back to the Rhine, and back home along it. Also tours through the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebengebirge on the other side of the Rhine to Siegen, or just up the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drachenfels_(Siebengebirge) instead of taking the cog-wheel train ;->

All in rather good time, maybe not for the first time, but when I knew the road(s) better, having built up a mental picture of the 'ideal line', hazards, and such.


Do you live in areas where these fat bikes are popular?

I am fine with youth experimenting with dangerous stuff. What I have a problem with is having my small bike-oriented city be filled with kids pretending to be gangsters racing around on electric bikes with complete disregard to others.


Depends. Where I spend most of my time they seem to be actually forbidden by the BLM, which covers most of possible tracks. Maybe because of that they are uncommon on downtown roads, too? It's also an image thing there, like "Electric assistance? Loser!"

Tourists may see it different, but then they'd have to bring them with them. Seems impractical when most of them are already packed with skis, snowboards, and coming by regional plane from larger hubs. Which most them do.

Where I only visit nowadays, they seem also to be uncommon, except for the feeble things capped to 25kph. E-Scooters are way more annoying there. Be it by their drivers, or them simply being dropped in the midst of the way for whatever reason.


There's a dearth of organ donors, so one could say let them have their fun.

Problem I have is that they often collide into others or cause others to have severe accidents, not unlike drunk drivers. And that's not cool at all.

We don't have a fat bike plague here, but we do have similar issues with E-scooters. Too many drive them with no regards for other peoples safety.


We all took risks in the 1980s, kids thrive on risk.

The element of risk existing is not the argument being made here by ggm - it's the morphing and stretching of of the acturial mortality and morbidity curve.

The claim being made is that unregulateled electric bikes mixing in neophyte road users, suburban traffic, uncapped speeds, etc is increasing the per capita risk for an age band over what it was when "we" inhabited that demographic tribe back in our short pant days.


Just one of GAIA's ways of getting rid of "elite overproduction" in an already overpopulated world.


Did your bike weigh 90 lbs and accelerate to top speed in 4 sec?


No. Just 13kg, IIRC. Though I once sped through this curve https://osm.org/go/0GJEvDJAo?m= , on my backwheel only (In a wheelie so to speak), at about 40 to 60kph, having accelerated with a scream of rage on the parking space there. Burning rubber. Almost ran over a female teacher of mine, after that curve. Still wheelieing up, cursing "Shit! Shit! Outta my way! Shit! Sorry!" fast, trying to bring the front wheel down by leaning hard into the handlebar, all in a blur. Still burning rubber. Didn't really work until the next crossing, which I also took with the frontwheel up in the air, but not so high anymore. I still don't get how exactly I did that. Because I havn't done that before. Just feeling impossible rage, and having the urge to get away from there ASAP, or else...

I'm just remembering six fast jerking motions, bringing me around that curve on the backwheel only. Instinct, guardian angel, who knows?

Rage was expensive. Backtire slick, internal wire netting visible all along. 30 Deutsche Marks gone :-(

OTOH I had unforgettable sex with that (sports)teacher(a very good and early triathlete) a few hours later :-)

Edit: I didn't even notice the burning rubber. I've just been shown my visible skidmarks on the tarmac, and they still stank.

I've been assured that they literally did burn in parts, with tiny blueish flame. But not for long, 2 minutes at most.

Looking at my backwheel...slick to the netting. Meh!


100% bullshit you did those speeds unless you’re Phil anderson


If you say so? Shrug

(Mumbling something about Talk to the hand Terminator-style here)


Some kids near me had fun throwing rocks from a bridge above the motorway. Someone's windshield got smashed, but hey the kids had fun!


Where I work in healthcare honestly and owning up is encouraged and unless there is major negligence not often punished. They just want to try learn why the mistake happened and look for ways to prevent it going forward. My buddy said for his company if an accident happens WorkSafe is not out to punish as long as they are very forward and honest. Again they want to learn how to avoid it happening again. Punishment only scares others to try hide mistakes.

I think they missed a big opportunity to instead of firing the guy sit him down and stress how not okay this was and that it harms the credibility and he needs to understand that and make a proper apology. They could make him do some education like ethical reporting responsibilities or whatever.

Then like you say not just hide the article but point out the mistakes and corrections. Describe the mistake and how credible reporting is their priority and the author will be given further education to avoid this happening again. They could also make new policies like going forward all articles that use AI for search results must attempt to find a source for that information. This would build trust not harm it in my opinion.


If a doctor intentionally did something that they obviously know is unethical they would be fired too. This was not a "mistake", it is a huge ethical violation.

This is more like writing your buddy a prescription for drugs to take recreationally


I agree. I'd add that the fact he appeared to be working while sick -- and that he pre-emptively and immediately publicly apologised -- means I think he already did behave as he should.

This makes me question Ars not him. Loss of credibility indeed.


The more I think about it the less sure I am if I would prefer a permanent switch to be standard or daylight time. On one hand I really dislike winter months and work starting in complete darkness. So always enjoy the time change and mornings soon after feeling brighter. But on the other hand come summer I really love getting off work and going to the beach. So I will have more sun hours this way which is big. I really thought they would split the difference and just go 30 minutes but guess that would be challenging for many reasons.


I agree and would have preferred that as well. But what I really thought they would do was split the two and just meet in the middle.


My iPhone 8 just stopped working 2 months back (phone works but the microphone used in phone calls no longer works) so by chance my good friend gave me his pixel 8 that was only a couple few months old. It got a pink line down the screen that comes and goes which if you press in one spot can usually make it go away but he is a business owner and he can't risk the screen going from line to not working for a day as a missed communication could cost him thousands. So he said here take it and he got a new one. Seems like this pink line is common and a defect in some screens.

Anyways I wanted to say I also have a pixel 8 but with stock OS and my battery typically lasts a full day with average usage. My iPhone 8 previously even with a replacement battery was lucky if it lasted more then 5 hours. I had to charge that thing multiple times a day.


The iPhone 8 was released in 2017 and the Pixel 8 is from 2023.


That pink line issue is covered under a repair program btw at least here in Europe

(I have the exact same issue)


Christmas 2013 my mom gave me a nice stand mixer. She knew I like to cook and bake and owned a bread maker but she knew I always felt bread makers were good but just fell short or being great. This gift also changed my life forever.

Days later on New Years I decided my resolution would be to not buy bread for an entire year and make it all myself. Also I was a father or 3 and funds tight back then so buying bread for school lunches all the time really added up.

So I started making bread and did not buy any for months. Slowly it became better and slowly I started making other items like pizza dough and bagels and cinnamon buns. I got to a point where I no longer needed to measure and could just free pour ingredients and my baking was really good.

Then soon into 2014 I decided to buy a huge stock pile of flour and several other ingredients from Costco so had like 200lbs of flour and lots of oil and pasta sauce and chicken and suddenly work laid half of us off until things picked up. Having all those ingredients saved me and my kids. Never did they go hungry. We ate lots of pizza and always had bread and bagels and if I had to buy it already made there is no way I would have made it.

I did not achieve my resolution on July 14 2024 me and my wife split up suddenly after some shenanigans on her end and I was suddenly the primary care giver for 3 kids and the stress was too much and I did not have it in me to continue making bread but kept strong for my kids and never let on my struggles.

Lastly even though I did not achieve my resolution I did make it almost 7 full month's making bread and I never lost it. I still make bread but my biggest hit is homemade pizza. My kids struggle to eat store bought stuff as my home made is just so much better. If anyone would like some simple pointers on how to make amazing pizza dough comment and I would be happy to give a few quick tips.


Yes please! I'm getting pretty decent at bread now, I've been making a loaf every three days or so for a few months. But I would love to add pizza dough to my skills.


My biggest tip is so easy and after starting it the difference was immediately noticable. And this applies to pizza or bread dough.

There are many factors that will change how your dough tastes, feels and bakes. Texture is a massive factor on how people rate your bread or other doughs. Two big factors that massively help with that are as follows.

First knowing how long you must knead the dough for. I won't get into too much detail for this just look up dough window pane test on YouTube and there are lots of videos. The TLDR is you knead until you can take a small ball of the dough and gently spreading it with your thumbs should be able to make a thin pain that lets light through easily without ripping. If it rips you need more kneading. Again look at some videos.

The BIGGEST improvement to my doughs was when I started adding powdered milk. I use about half cup to 3/4 cup when making enough pizza dough for about 3 large pizza. For a couple loafs of bread probably half cup is plenty. Again lots of information on why powdered milk helps but will let you research if you want to know more.

All I can say is that my dough was always good before milk powder but the day I saw the suggestion to use it and did I can't go back. I have had friends say my pizza is the best they ever had. Last year my ex asked me if I wanted to come meet her friends and some girls but also would I mind making some pizza dough lol!

Honestly there are lots of tips for good bread and dough but just adding milk powder will up your bread huge. Good luck I hope you give it a go if so also hope you come back and comment how it went. Cheers!


I have not yet tried vibe coding but it is something I look forward to trying when I get some free time (kids growing up a little).

I assume some could use it to make for commercial sale products but when I heard of it I really just pictured it mainly for small personal projects mainly.

I have always had an interest in electronics but without going to college there was really obvious no path to get into creating small diy projects. Then years back came along Raspberry Pi. I bought one along with a big variety of different sensors and a breadboard and all the things one would need to create something. I pictures making things that would email my mom when her plants were getting dry and many other dreams with all the sensors.

But it was still overwhelming. Lots of knowledge you need before you even start so it felt hard. But eventually I set off to try something and with many hours of searching for how to code what I wanted and essentially copying code and maybe slightly altering it to my needs I did finish one project. It was basic but I was always proud of what I accomplished. I had an IR sensor that would detect if someone walked in front of it and when that happened I also had a power relay that was connected to a lamp. When motion detected the lamp would then blink SOS in Morse code and it would also send me an email saying motion detected. What a feeling when I ran it and it worked on the first try.

But that took so much time searching and trying to find the code I wanted. I see vibe coding and imagine I could do the same thing in minutes verses hours. I don't think I will ever make some project that is ever going to make me money but do imagine with vibe coding the barrier to creating some of those projects I dreamed up in my head for personal use is much closer and obtainable.


Well one must also argue the opposite. I myself have gained immense knowledge from YouTube. I have learned things like phone screen replacements or phone battery replacements. I call myself a mechanic from the school of YouTube and have saved myself at minimum $10k in repairs doing the work myself. I have learned to make endless food recipes or create things like giant bubbles or slime for my kids. My point is that I bet sure for some YouTube is a massive time sink waste of time. But I also wonder how much it has improved the knowledge, skills and ability of others. My dad often mentions how had he had YouTube when he was younger how much it would have done for him. He talks about having to go to the library and if lucky there was a book that could show you the knowledge you were looking for. He says but now you can find not just the knowledge but for example specific knowledge like car make model and year and how exactly to do job xyz. Ultimately I just can not imagine life without the wealth of knowledge YouTube has given me.


Congratulations! You’ve successfully avoided YouTube Shorts.


Lol I laughed out loud reading this comment. When shorts first came out they annoyed me to no end. I searched for how to block them through settings or other ways to just make them go away.

But now days I can admit there are a few, very few, content creators who create shorts that are very informative and straight to the point that can cover a topic and give you many facts and let you decide if you want to seek more. Sometimes it is nice to have the 30 seconds Coles notes verses a video stretched out to 10 minutes to be eligible for monetization.

BUT, and this is a big but, the shorts and similar video platform trends scare me as a parent. I can see how my kids find a 1.5 hour movie boring but can scroll endlessly through shorts. It might seem harmless letting your kid just scroll on YouTube from my perspective is like an addiction and kids are getting that dopamine hit watching a clip and seconds later watching something else. I've learned that it is very important to be aware of what your kids are being accustomed to and push them in the right direction.


YT shorts are up to 3 minutes now.

At this point it is just YT Vertical Videos.


Personally, I just scroll through them. They break the feed into well defined "chapters" at the end of what I can decide to look into the next one or go somewhere else because there's nothing good there today.

Also there's this woman that makes very funny shorts about software development and good long videos that aren't as good. I look for her shorts too.


I just stay on my subscriptions page. Most of them don’t do Shorts, and the few that do don’t do many so they’re easy to ignore.


You can avoid the infinite scroll by taking the short video ID and inserting it into the regular player URL.


My guess would be that for most people they already have a pretty good idea if you are an adult. Like my account was created years and years ago not long after it was released so unless I was under 8 when I did so the odds are pretty good I am at least 18. But to further my guess of why they are not bugging you is because they are not YET bugging you. By that I mean then want to make it seem like they only want to "save the children". That, in a lot of cases they basically already know you must be over 18. But in my opinion that is only to lessen the blow and not annoy everyone at once. Many escape ID requirements and continue to use the app and if all goes well not enough people push back or quit and a high enough number of people continue to use the app that it makes other people either use the user hostile app or not easily connect and communicate to a large community. But also in my opinion once people calm down and move on they will continue to push more demand for user ID. It will be a slow push but knowing who you are is too valuable. There will be excuses as to why they need it and eventually there will be a reason why you a user of over a decade will also need to prove you are who you are.

One positive note I am actually old man wrinkly balls. I have been there for the rise and fall of many sites. Maybe it will happen for discord as well only time will tell. Cheers


I too am annoyed by “faux leather” as it is so stupid to see some ad saying leather jacket and when you look at the details see faux leather. That is not a leather jacket it is a plastic jacket so cut the shit. Same level of ragebait as things like vegetarian “meat”balls.


> Same level of ragebait as things like vegetarian “meat”balls.

There is some amazing vegetarian food out there. Both Buddhist and Hindu cultures have been making amazing vegetarian food for literally thousands of years and they are really good at it.

Also, vegetables are just yummy!

Fake meat, no thanks. Incredible vegetarian and vegan food exists, stop trying to fake it. Same with gluten free foods, almond flour is an amazing ingredient but it is different than flour. It is funny that the keto community had amazing gluten free recipes years before the gluten free communities figured it out.


Exactly. I find myself incidentally eating vegetarian most of the week, being Indian, just because it tastes good (and because it's cheaper, but that's another matter). My parents only eat meat on the weekends due to such cost so it's interesting to see people in the West eat meat for every meal such that its lack is noted.


Agreed... when I was a vegetarian, I ate nothing but Indian/Malay/Thai etc and it was great. If I hadn't moved I would probably be vegetarian to this day.


What’s wrong with vegetarian meatballs? As a vegetarian I find naming the products after what they’re imitating far more helpful that coming up with some clumsy confusing name that’s obviously trying to imply what they want to say without saying it… does anyone really read the word “vegetarian” and then still think it must have meat in it? I don’t think that’s a real problem


"Stop calling it soy MILK! There's no such thing as oat MILK! Milk comes from COWS."

What should they call it, then? Oat beverage? Soy water? No, that's silly. They are, functionally, milks. That's an apt descriptor.

Ditto for other vegan alternatives.



Maybe "juice" ? "Soy juice" and "Oat juice" sound pretty good to me.

On the "Soy milk" wikipedia page, it is said that Germany and Italy use names like "soy drink" or "soy beverage".


It is much closer in taste and use to milk than it is to juice.


I see my comment got upvotes but yours is downvoted for some reason, maybe they only read the first sentence and thought you were disagreeing? (or they agree with this for meastball but not milk for some reason)


It's more amusing when they call it "vegan leather".


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