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Leaving your job to go create something awesome (darwinapps.com)
66 points by vlokshin on March 1, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 26 comments


> If your team’s hourly rate is $150/hr, that’s what they’re worth. Don’t skimp on them or on yourself. That $100 savings isn’t worth it if two team members each waste 30 minutes (you’ve effectively lost 50$).

That's a confounding of a couple of slightly misleading concepts.

If your billing rate is $150/hr, then that's what you should bill for. What you do in your non-billable hours is what makes your billable rates what they are. It doesn't mean that you're earing your billable rate during non-billable hours, or that you should evaluate them on that basis. Rather, you should evaluate non-billable time on the basis of: does doing this increase my billable hours, my billable rate, or otherwise improve business (reduced cost of sales, reduced churn)?

By way of a sports analogy, a team that can fill a 20,000 seat stadium at $50/seat for a 3 hour game, a net rate of $33,3333/hour, shouldn't evaluate its training and transport time on that basis. Rather, training and transport are what gets you to that $33 grand an hour.

Similarly, a $50 expense should be weighed on its marginal effect on productivity, in light of alternatives. If a $25 expense will return an $80 productivity gain, and a $50 expense nets $100, you're better off spending $25 (net gain of $55) than $50 (net gain of $50). Of course, in reality, costs and benefits are often much harder to measure, you're working off of partial and uncertain information.

But at least get the underlying logic right.


You're breaking apart a very minor detail. (most) People on hackernews can do this math, as can I.

Ironically enough, I had a much longer write-up for that section, and deleted an entire paragraph.

An audience / readers are fickle, if you want attention -- you need to take out what doesn't really matter.

But technically: you're right, you're right. Sorry to have offended you...


It's not so much that these are minor details, but I see fallacious / erroneous logic used to justify various actions. Most often, it's actively discouraging collaboration / close working by employees on the basis that they're wasting one another's time and/or that two people working on the same problem is not cost effective, regardless of the fact that they are electing to work in this way, and that productivity is higher (combined) than were they working independently.

Yes, you can make the argument that excessive long meetings are cost sinks (but they're likely much more effective than passing information to people one at a time). The key is to keep meetings to the minimum required, to keep them on track and moving toward a goal, and to head off those who'll disrupt, hijack, or otherwise kill efficiency, as well as ensure that makers get their long-duration, uninterrupted time blocks when best suited to get their work done (probably the biggest negative of contemporary office life and design).

As for the billing rate observation: that's not a math problem, strictly, it's a recognition of billable vs. nonbillable productive activities.

No offense taken.


I think it's a mistake to classify people who don't do this as "cogs." As a self-employed entrepreneur myself, I actually envy happy "cogs." I think they tend to lead much more balanced lives. They have work and a life. Most entrepreneurs I know can't separate their work from their life.

If the statement, "I love my job" makes sense to you, then you should never quit your job to start your own company. It's usually a terrible financial decision and it involves a ton of instability. The main reason to do it is because you look at your life as an employee and just can't see yourself ever being happy.


You're completely right. From the comments/feedback, sounds like I generalized here a bit.

I 100% believe in doing what you're passionate about / what you love. If that means contributing to a team of 1000, or a team of 1, so be it -- the "cog" is simply someone who isn't doing what they want to be doing, or isn't taking the steps to get there.


This was a nice short read. However, I'd like to see something between this and The Four Steps to the Epiphany. Something that held out its hand, so that I could grab it that would lead me step by step to:

1. Find out what in the hell I'm good at, love doing, and should be doing. Every book and website I read about this leads me to believe that I'm "creative". We'll that's great, but I don't know how to turn that into a business. I've read plenty of "you can do it" but there isn't a lot of "this is what you specifically should be doing because I know you- seriously".

2. Help me get my ass off the couch with a plan. A plan that leads me the way a morbidly obese person could be inspired to start doing small exercises like barely sitting up, but eventually actually get in shape. Not just a book on getting a business plan together. If I wanted one of those, I could spit 20 feet and find one. I mean a plan step-by-step of what I need to do to go from making X at company A to making X on my own, with a limited amount of time making x * 0.75 or x * 0.50.

3. Tell me whether I really need an LLC or just business insurance. Tell me the laws for doing business in my state, in my country, with other states, with other countries. Do I need a VAT id? What is the difference between a quote and contract of work that I'd need to do business with the U.S. government vs. a small company in Germany vs. a small company in Australia? All of these details, but in a really friendly language.

I know there are groups that support entrepreneurs and startups, but most of them don't support them to go international from day one, and they are more geared to evaluate and provide funding so VC's can invest and reap dividends. I have been approached by people around the world that want to pay me for my product or services, but can't because they can't tell me what I'm supposed to be doing.

That's the kind of shit I want to know. I love reading these hopeful posts. But even the most informative don't touch the surface, and the ones that go too far into depth miss the practical stuff.

I know it isn't easy. It sounds like I want everything wrapped in a golden ribbon. Well, I'm getting paid pretty well full-time and though I've always wanted to take the jump, spending years reading about others that have done what I want to do (kind of- if I knew exactly what it was), has gotten me nowhere.

Magical information and assistance like this just doesn't seem to exist.


"Magical information and assistance like this just doesn't seem to exist."

Agreed, but that's why the majority of the world ends up living life as a cog.

None of this shit is easy, and no one is going to handhold you through the process.

If that's your expectation, you're simply not cut out for this. But... you did mention a Steve Blank book, which makes me think all hope is not lost :)

I'd recommend: 1. Read "The startup owners manual" by Steve Blank, or at least skim the parts that seem interesting to you 2. Learn to follow the pomodoro technique religiously. This changed my "get shit done" ability dramatically -- sounds like that may be a hump you're having some trouble getting over.

In detail to 2, the thing I love most about the pomodoro technique is that it forces you to break down a task to <25 mins.

Let's take one of your points: "3. Tell me whether I really need an LLC or just business insurance. Tell me the laws for doing business in my state, in my country, with other states, with other countries. Do I need a VAT id? What is the difference between a quote and contract of work that I'd need to do business with the U.S. government vs. a small company in Germany vs. a small company in Australia? All of these details, but in a really friendly language."

You're never going to figure that out on your own if that's the approach. That's a BIG, complicated question with a lot of factors to consider. Either you have the money to pay someone to figure it out for you, or break down something you can actually go do your research about.

Assume, test, analyze, grind, repeat.


"None of this shit is easy, and no one is going to handhold you through the process."

Thanks for giving the straight up answer on this.

We all love to read about the people doing it but the reality is that the time and effort that is really involved is just tremendous. I am reminded of the story of a person asking a famous piano player that they would really like to play like them. The answer that was given to the person was - "No you don't. You don't want to be sitting in front of a piano for 4 hours every day for years, practicing and practicing. You say you want to play like me but you can't/won't put in the time to get to my level of skill."

We all like to read about starting a company but at the end of the day, no one but you is going to get you out of that couch. Especially this notion of "I don't have a an idea". There's a simple answer to that. Make that your intention, make it your job to get an idea.

I love James Altucher's daily practice : http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/02/how-to-be-the-luckiest-...

Just spend time every morning coming up with ideas. Heck there's going to be hundreds of shitty ideas coming out but at some point there might be something akin to nugget of gold in there. Even with that nugget, not much will come of it, if its not cleaned, processed and made something of it. It's the same with the idea, go ahead and apply Steve Blank's methodology on it. Maybe in a span of one or two years, you went through a handful of junky ideas that didn't turn into anything (and hopefully not much was lost - especially if you followed Steve's approach) but perhaps you might have enough of a business to work for yourself and have a couple of employees.

Now, does this mean that if you follow this approach, you will succeed? Who knows. That's the beauty of it, the journey is the fun part. If you've done it right, you might succeed gloriously (but please, don't think you can be the next Dropbox, Groupon, etc. bringing home 200-500K net income from your business for yourself is a very comfortable lifestyle). Just don't fail gloriously. Baby steps, until you know that the big step you want to take (such as quitting your full time gig) will have a good outcome.


All good stuff to know. Thanks!

> Especially this notion of "I don't have a an idea". There's a simple answer to that. Make that your intention, make it your job to get an idea.

Yeah, I've tried that. I've read "48 days" and got stuck at the point it says "what do you want to do". I emailed them and told them this. They tried to help. It didn't (at all). Basically, I want my own business. I want to work from home or somewhere where I control my environment and location. But the main thing is that I love is my family. I will continue to do the shit I am tired of doing (tired of it since 2003) because it continues to pay the bills. I've wanted to be running my own "shop" since ~2007. I've read lots. I've listened to lots. And I just keep getting older and dumner. So now I've actually started to do more than just buy a domain and sit on it or talk about doing things. I've started, but I'm not totally in love with it. I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up, because when I list those things, it sounds like an uber rich kid philanthropist, not someone who is service-oriented. When I think about the things that I would most love to do in terms of work, it would be helping others and feeling competent and helpful in my own business. That's all I know. That's not enough. So "figure it out" doesn't help me anymore than a shot in the leg helps someone to be motivated to run. But, I'm trying. I have something going. And it's the first time I've been excited about work in a while.

BTW- that link you posted is awesome, but here is a tough quote from it:

"But I don’t get close to anyone bringing me down. This rule can’t be broken. Energy leaks out of you if someone is draining you. And I never owe anyone an explanation. Explaining is draining."

That is both true, close to home, and also sounds so selfish. I think you need to be there for your friends- your real friends at least- and family like he said, and that can really mean that you get drug down. By the same token, I drag them down. I think this quote is about 50% right then, but the rest of that post is right on.


You know what, the message that I am hearing from you is that you want to be in control of your work, in control of your time and know that what you are doing is meaningful. A person that runs a cleaning service with 5 or 6 employees gets all of that.

The question then may not be so much about having something to be totally in love with. We all have to be practical. As long as you like what you are doing and you are in a position that gives you that control from doing it, that might be enough. I can't say that I'm totally passionate about what I do, but I gave up on finding my "passion". I have marketable skills and I am leveraging it. I was a full time employee of a Fortune 500 software company and then I became a full time contractor. I am loving that aspect of it. I am more in control of my work, I don't fully control my time but if I don't put in a 7.5 hour day or take a day off here or there, no one is on my back. Personally for me the next logical step is to build a business so that I am able to get even more in control (ie move away from having my income depending on hours).

So, what can you do now that can bring you closer to giving you that control? If you are full time, can you go contract? I'm not talking freelancing but instead doing the full 40 hour week but getting paid hourly. If you are already doing that, then the next step is to just save and save money. The way older people can somewhat make up for the advantages of youth is to have a large runway. Having $100K to $200K that you can live on and spend on your business for the next two-three years goes a long way to having a better chance of success. Having a wife and kids and putting the house on the line and worrying about the next mortgage payment or rent payment isn't being an entrepreneur, that is just being plain stupid and selfish.

If you hang around your local startup groups, you will realize that everybody has something to bring to the table no matter how old.

Anyway, I get your frustration. I would not devalue yourself. Don't take any of this seriously. It's just not worth it. One book that I think you would find worth reading is Cal NewPort's book - So Good They Can't Ignore You. His blog is also interesting.

Thanks for letting me share my opinion on this. I don't intend it to sound preachy - it is just my own thoughts.


I like your response and tone. And the article.

But:

> Agreed, but that's why the majority of the world ends up living life as a cog.

This to me, amounts to: You are a failure (cog) if you don't do your own thing and "follow your dreams".

I don't agree with anything in that statement. I would ask readers to really think about why "following dreams" is important. Is it related to happiness? What if skills and dreams are completely out of reach from each other? Is it really just going to set someone up for failure/depression etc.

As I say, I like the sentiment, but feel there is little analysis to the thought.


> What if skills and dreams are completely out of reach from each other?

That is right on. Every time I list the things that are important to me that I love and/or would love to do they don't match up with my skills or they won't make me any money, with the exception of the generic "start your own business", so I'm doing what I don't really like all that much to be able to have a business, which I do love. It probably isn't a terribly great idea. But, I'm excited.


Depends on your "governing values" (Covey), You are a cog, but your values lie with Family, then cog is a means to end not an end in itself?


You're right, and it should be just "follow your dreams".

Doing your own thing has a lot less to do with it, and just happens to be a part of my dream.

Also, I'm not exactly "doing my own thing" -- I'm simply getting to work with a team that's a lot better at making our collective "dreams" a reality as compared to our respective previous situations.

Sorry for the 1-sidedness -- and you're right about there not being much analysis to the thought. This was a more personal, than logical, post so please take it as only such.


Thanks for the advice!

> If that's your expectation, you're simply not cut out for this.

I'm identifying a need. I know plenty of people like myself. The problem is not motivation. The problem is that by the time that most of us are old enough to recognize that we could do it on our own, we're also smart enough to realize that even if we knew all of the rules, the chances are 100% that our family has to sacrifice and chances are even with all of the knowledge, failure is frequent. I want to minimize failure. I would pay someone to have this info. Something focused on selling support for previously free open-source products with established international customer base, and converting from 6 figure salary with great benefits to working from home at same salary within a year at most. I'm the only wage earner and we have bills to pay. I'm not being a wuss. It is just something I want to do, but have no idea how to pull off. Many would say either "don't do it" or "start slow and see how it goes". I'm trying the latter right now, but I still have no fucking clue how to handle the practical stuff. I need to know the applicable laws, have the connections, and I'm not attractive to VC's or angels at all in my own estimate.


A lot of solutions simply mean breaking down a problem into further derivates than you think.

"becoming attractive to VC's" wouldn't be a solution, there are about 100 details you'd have to get right first. Brainstorm those details and focus on them, instead of the goal that ends up being a summary of those details :)


I could help you with that. Been doing it for myself for years.


Have you been residing in the U.S. doing independent contractor work and selling support for your open-source projects from the U.S. to other U.S. states, Germany, Australia, G.B., etc.? If so, let me know, and I'll definitely send you something. It would be terrific to have help!

I'm more interested at the moment in just basic things like the legalities of dealing with these states, if I really need something to help with the various sales, etc. taxes and what kind of plan to get or whether I can farm that out via some reputable e-commerce solution that handles these things already, how to make contracts and quotes for these companies. How to translate "work for hire" and "you are not paying me for copyright for code I write in this open source project". Whether I need to be incorporated to do business with them. I know LLC is primarily to write off taxes, and that I'm fairly sure that I need business insurance, because I don't want to lose my life savings in a lawsuit.

Basically, I need an accountant with lots of U.S./Int'l experience, an international lawfirm, a psychoanalyst, a friend with similar experience, and a few advisors.


Yes, I do work as a freelancer. I also help others monetize and/or market their business/projects. But I'm not an accountant.


It's all out there. The books, knowledge, people and process for entrepreneurship are there for the taking.

Your job is to collect and synthesize knowledge from books, mentors, fans, customers and peers to find your unique formula for success.

I can't tell you what your formula for success is - no one can. We don't know your strengths, weakenesses or whether you have come from an immediate or extended family with one or more entrepreneurs - a major factor in predicting business success.

I will say one thing though.

I don't know many entrepreneurs, whether business or technology oriented, who are abysmal marketers.

The best technology-focused entrepreneurs are also, at the very least, average to above-average marketers. They got that way due to instinct, study, mentors, or all 3.

Study and learn to love marketing and design. If you can combine those two things with strong technical acumen you'll be able to literally bring your dreams to life.

The more of a curious renaissance man and generalist you can be the better, because you'll be able to dive in and do whatever it takes at any given time to drive your business, brand and product(s) forward - whether it's coding, design, marketing, networking, producing and syndicating content or optimizing conversions on a landing page.

Sure, create something awesome. But don't pretend that your awesome thing is 100% of the equation. Your awesome product idea is 10% of success. The other 90% is selling and hustle.


> Deals you expect to close will fall through. Don’t let your business ride on any one client or project — no one owes you anything until a contract is signed. That being said, deals you don’t expect to happen will happen.

This is gold.


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw


Already doing that, thanks. I agree.


I did this. It was scary because I was leaving a very well-paying job, but I was so excited for all the possibilities. In a year, I produced tons of awesome code, that did what it was written to do. But the product itself floundered, and never took a shape that I could believe in. I even tried hiring others to give it a fresh take, but that didn't work.

In the meantime, it sped the end of a relationship. She seemed as obsessed with her own goals of starting a family as I was with my goals of starting a company. There was little middle ground. My bank account ran dry sooner than expected. I didn't find quite enough freelance work to stay afloat.

Finally, faced with a rapidly shrinking runway, the prospect of 1.5 years intense coding work amounting to nothing but uninspiring demos, and nobody else but me invested, I imploded. Meltdown. I was grasping at every straw, but it was all just that. Straw. The SO was gone. The money was gone. I'd taken the initiative to start interviewing, but nothing was connecting up.

This led to one of the darkest depressions of my life. Things are only just starting to look up now, as I've finally had a job offer with a company that I'm truly excited to work at. And the work that I did while independent played a big part in landing the job. I can't say whether it was 'worth it' - only that this is how it happened, and I'm very grateful that it did. I feel it did not have to be so miserably hard.

So, I suggest having even more cushion than you think you need. Keeping your relationships with colleagues warm. Pursuing other plans, contracts, or job prospects while you work on your idea. If you do not already have very supportive family and friends around who believe in what you're doing, ask yourself if you have the personality to really believe in yourself that much. Anything so it does not have to be like "I must succeed at this or life is over."


Sorry to hear, and hopefully this doesn't deter you from trying again (if that's what you want to do). Sounds like it'll be a lot easier next time around from what you learned, and landing the job you have now was made possible by the same learnings.


How long did it take you to recover?




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