Ask HN: Dealing with clients who don't know what looks bad?

[SwearWord]

To start, I'm technically a backend developer. I'm most comfortable tweaking and optimizing code to run milliseconds faster. However, web design is still a hobby of mine and after adding Dribbble to my RSS feed I've gotten a lot better just by immersing myself with the work of great designers.

So now I have my first client ever, I'm 20 with no experience in dealing with them and I'm finding that he is insistent on pushing his own ideas that , to be frank don't look so great. I try to explain to him the issues but he seems to be ignoring them. I've managed to work with him and create something decent around what he wants but it's hardly my best work or even something I'd be proud of.

Is this the fate of all designers, do I just have to suck it up? Or is there some way of satisfying the client as well as myself.

EDIT: Clarification, the design is not really for some functional or business website, it's the equivalent of a business card, it just displays basic information. It's more likely to be viewed by colleagues than consumers. It's fashion related so image is important.

[rada]

A/B testing with real customers (in this case, his colleagues) is the only way to resolve this. It's worked with my difficult clients and even more difficult partners. Just don't be surprised if your client's "bad" ideas win over yours. Oftentimes, industry-specific, historical reasons override the principles of good design.

[noonespecial]

Unfortunately most people have an innate sense of what looks right to them. This looks awful to most everyone else. Design seems to be the art of discovering the small common overlap in the majority of people's "sense". To the uninitiated, this makes a good design based on their ideas seem empty and incomplete. It takes a lot of trust to accept that when your designer says it's done, it's done. The temptation to add the parts you think are missing is nearly overwhelming.

If you haven't built up this trust with this particular clinet, there is likely little you can do. Work with what you have. Make what suggestions you can. Accept that this time around the end result is going to be cluttered and clunky and that your client will think it's magnificent.

[flexxaeon]

When put in this situation I usually go down this list:

- find something that is 'technically impossible' about the element(s) in question

- find something about the element(s) that will "increase load time", even if it's only by a second or two. (telling clients that their site will load slower always gets their attention)

- if available, use someone in the clients' staff/camp that agrees with me and have them do the convincing. Sometimes a client will think you're advising against element(s) because you're lazy or incapable. If someone they trust more is in accord with you, it helps to sway them.

if these or other tricks of the trade fail, I remind myself that 'the customer is always right', collect the check, and likely won't include the project in my portfolio.

[ahi]

Learning when and how to convince a client their requests are stupid is a skill that comes with experience.

Sometimes it is possible to ignore or "misunderstand" a request that is not in your client's best interests. If they were really committed to their bad idea, you'll hear about it again. !This only works if you haven't already tried to convince them it's a bad idea!

And some clients you just have to suck it up. "It's their money," is a mantra I repeat to myself when I get frustrated.

[se85]

You have to figure out if its even worth your time dealing with the dramas clients like this bring to the table.

More often than not, it's not worth taking on clients like this, especially if you keep accumulating clients like this and end up having to deal with multiple people who behave like this.

My suggestion is to gently let them go as a client (unless you have a really good reason not to) and focus on working with clients who aren't going to be a pain every step of the way.

[brudgers]

It's the client who has to live with the design. What you like is irrelevant. If you want it to be better, show them two versions. That's life as a designer...or a programmer:

"Do it both ways and see which works better." -John Carmack

http://blog.kowalczyk.info/article/Carmack-on-creativity.htm...

[vasco]

If it's not too much trouble I usually present their version and a modified one that I think it's better, if they feel their version is the way to go, I don't even blink, they're the ones paying.

[SuperChihuahua]

What if ugly design is something good - who's the judge?

http://www.mrgreen.am/affiliate-marketing/the-ugly-truth/

[SwearWord → SuperChihuahua]

You're right it is objective however I should clarify.

The design is not really for some functional or business website, it's the equivalent of a business card, it just displays basic information. It's fashion related so image is important.