I've lived in the midwest, and in Portland. What many people don't get is that Portland has hills bigger than what people in the midwest would call a mountain.
Also, snow in late December is relatively rare. We missed a white Christmas by one day. Only have an inch here where I'm at, but hey, take what you can get.
The snow is also much more wet and slick in the PNW along the Puget Sound and down the Willamette River Valley than it is in many other places that receive regular annual snowfall. Mostly because when it snows in Seattle, Tacoma, Portland, etc. the temperature is hovering right at the melting point, so the snow compacts to a slick ice-like form quickly. Even up at the ski resorts on places like Mt. Hood the snow is damp and heavy feeling compared to the crisp and fluffy snow in the Rockies, for example.
That said, having spent most of my life in Portland and also most of my life driving in the mountains in the winter to ski & snowboard, I can confirm that people in Portland can't drive in the snow. It's almost as amusing as people driving in San Diego in the rain. :-)
> Wanna learn how to drive in the snow? Tackle an unplowed, 45 degree hill littered with vehicles that didn't make it.
I'm sure your advice is a bit tongue in cheek? :D
I live on the hillier/colder/drier side of Washington where we do get some actual snow. During my kids' learning years of driving (16-18), first big snow, I find an empty/abandoned parking lot, take my kids there, do a couple of donuts and such, then throw the kid the keys, tell 'em "stay in the middleish and have fun."
They get a feel for massive understeer, sliding vs static fraction, etc this way. It makes it not a surprise later. Since they all have to learn to drive a stick (manual), we learn how to brake via downshifting too.
It all makes me feel skilled and is one of those rare moments where my teenagers actually think I have some useful wisdom to pass on still. Sadly, it earns me no credibility in any other area of their lives I'd like to peddle my wisdom to them. :)
Coeur d'Alene, ID here. My advice to "new to the area" people when the topic of snow driving comes up is "go to a parking lot...put your car into a slide, spin, etc". It gives you a very good idea of what the car is going to do on the road and more importantly...allows you to learn how to recover from those situations at a time where you are less likely to have panic set in.
It really only takes a few minutes to get the feel for how the car will react. Learning those things in a controlled situation is a very good way to develop the "instinct" to correct without panic. Most of the time hitting the brakes is the wrong thing to do...that is not natural to a panicking driver.
My parents had me do a driving school that specializes in inclement weather training. A few years ago, I did one at ProDrive at Portland International Raceway, and they have a car on a sled that reduces traction that is REALLY good for teaching kids this.
My favorite is to pull the e-brake and have them drive the car. Basically, they will need to continuously counter steer. Works after a few minutes, and it all clicks.
Next slide will see them execute the correction on instinct.
> Since they all have to learn to drive a stick (manual), we learn how to brake via downshifting too.
Something to be aware of when shifting down on stick shift is that certain carts are really unbalanced when braking on the gear. You won't notice in the summer, but on slippery roads just releasing the accelerator carelessly while in a low gear can send you on a sled ride.
If it is a rear wheel drive car, an unmatched (rpm) downshift will put effectively some braking force on the rear wheels. Which can near instantly snap oversteer if there is any steering input at all.
If you've driven a racing go-kart of the type that only has brakes on the rear axle, you'll be very familiar with this! Good practice.
> Wanna learn how to drive in the snow? Tackle an unplowed, 45 degree hill littered with vehicles that didn't make it.
This isn’t great advice unless you want your insurance premiums to go up.
If you want to learn to drive in the snow, drive in the snow. Get a feel for your vehicle. Drive slower than you think you need to. Know your route ahead of time and avoid inclines if possible.
Don’t play pinball with your car down a hill full of other cars.
I wasn't actually suggesting people do that. I'm saying that many people who claim to know how to drive in the snow come from places where it snows a lot, but they don't have Western Washington hilly terrain and their streets are regularly plowed, sanded, etc. Hence, they have not actually driven in the snow. The safest way to drive in the snow is to stay home.
The first key to effective snow driving is a light throttle and choosing the correct tyre. Driving in snow requires a tall tyre with a narrow section-width. This allows the tyre to cut through the crust and obtain traction on the hard surface beneath the snow (the opposite of sand tyres)...
Yep. Though it does not snow a ton here in Western Washington, we go skiing in the Cascade passes. So I have deducted snow tires for our vehicles. They are the biggest difference maker in my opinion.
It's not so much 'choosing the correct tire' - there's a 'category of tire' and it's called a 'snow tire' and everyone in snowy areas has them, often by law.
It's like 'choosing' to slip through the snow wearing Oxford shoes, or, put on a pair of boots.
All of these comments about bad driving in the W. Coast, about 50% of this is just everyone has completely the wrong tires.
Understood. I chose (forgive me) 'choosing the correct tire' because not everybody in snowy areas knows they need them, and not everybody has ready access to them. There's often no legal requirement for snow tyres, and some countries (Australia, for example) don't even HAVE snow tyres even though Canberra for eg, tends to get snow at least once a year.
Snow is no stranger in Scotland either, and there's no snow tyres requirement in the UK.
Germany has a law that states you must have winter tyres or all-year tyres from October to Easter ("Oktober bis Ostern" - O to O).
Drive up to Tiffindell Ski Resort in South Affrica (8,920 ft up) in whatever you have - donkey cart, bicyle, 4x4... That gets snowed in regularly, and there's a just a hand-made "4WD recommended" sign at the bottom of the mountain.
In California at least, it’s not that simple. There are “all weather tires” that, when paired with AWD, count for “snow tires” per CalTRANS chain control, and then there are real snow (and also, ice) tires. Guess what? You’re gonna have a better time with real snow tires versus all weather, but only the minority of vehicles in chain control in CA have them (IE the majority has chosen the wrong tire for snow safety).
Personally I would be perfectly happy if everyone just ran those all-season mountain snowflake tires in the winter. Sure, they're not as good as a real snow tire, but they're actually pretty good overall and I'd have no problem throwing a set of those on my pickup and going over the mountain. For the kind of winter weather we routinely see west of the Cascades, this kind of tire is ideal.
But what really happens is we have a lot of people on summer tires or the crappiest of all season commodity tires. As long as you don't have to do an emergency stop or an evasive maneuver, they seem like they're adequate for Oregon weather. But I recommend everyone with such tires try a hard stop or turn (in a big parking lot of course) with these tires when it's sub-40F.
Yes, real snow tires have near-magical traction in snow compared to anything else. For anyone who lives in snowy areas, definitely get a set for winter.
Fortunately I live on the California coast now, but when I had to deal with snow I had a set of Hakkapeliitta snow tires (from Finland), they were incredible. I wouldn't want to risk snow driving on any generic all-weather tires.
>It is more common to see 4WD vehicles abandoned in ditches because they didn't realize 4WD doesn't help with braking or going down a hill.
Snow tires also can't make stupid people not stupid, much to the chagrin of many an internet commenter and clipboard warrior.
As someone who is responsible for a fleet of vehicles that have to deal with snow I can say from experience that high end snow tires will not make empty RWD vans handle better than a run of the mill AWD crossovers on Walmart's finest all seasons. No amount of money can fix that kind of weight distribution.
I did Monida pass in Idaho coming into Montana in winter with just AWD (no chains). It was a steep decline in the other end, definitely not 45 degrees but enough to make me queasy. Suffice it to say I kept my Subaru in 1st gear all the way down.
Every single time it snows, Chicago transplants get out and go "OH NO! You guys don't know how to drive in the snow! Look at me! I'm from Chicago!" And then they slide straight off the side of a hill or backwards down a driveway.
It just keeps happening because there are new ones every year.
I was rather surprised to find out that my parents get a snow storm every year in late February or early March that dumps 1-3 inches of snow that takes several days to melt. They live not 40 minutes from La Jolla, a city in Southern California known for year round perfect weather.
They're barely at 3,000 feet elevation and as far as I know, the snow line in the Sierra Nevada mountains, even further north, is over twice that [1]. The nearest town a few miles away and a few hundred feet lower receives no snow whatsoever so we've been completely puzzled by the phenomenon. The funny thing is, I can't find any information about it online - it seems to be a very localized phenomenon in a sparsely populated exurban neighborhood and the locals just shrug about it.
You are misunderstanding that paper.Snow <3000 feet in the Sierra is common. The paper looks at specific locations over time, not the Sierra at large. some locations in the paper have a snow Line <500 feet.
I agree that most people don't care about climate mechanics, but it is well understood.
Interestingly I feel California has gotten colder, especially southern California. It used to stay around 50-60 in winter, now we regularly go down to 30-35 lows and 35-45 highs.
While it might not be super accurate, this simple site captures the way people panic in the PNW when it snows. It’s not uncommon to see cars abandoned on the side of roads (SR-520 in Washington, for example).
Having grown up in the midwest and moved to the PNW as an adult, the PNW does not manage snowfall in populated areas. This is not a fault of the people but rather the infrastructure--there just aren't enough plows, de-icing agents, etc. In Ohio for example when winter storm warnings occur there will be armies of plow drivers mobilized and removing snow almost the minute it hits. They realize the sooner you can get it off the road the easier it will be in the long run to keep everything clear. In Seattle unfortunately it will snow on the roads, stay there and get compacted, icy, hard, etc. and be much harder to remove (and much, much more dangerous to drive on especially with the hills in the city).
Exactly the same situation in the UK - snow is common but rarely persistent enough to justify the infrastructure investment to deal with it. Also, having an excuse to combine moaning about the weather with moaning about our inept government is basically enough to trigger a collective national orgasm.
Plenty of plows and gritters in Scotland (all with names like Lord Coldemort and Buzz Lightyear)
A fair number of plows in northern England too, the A66 across the Pennines is often blocked. Further south it’s typically just gritters spreading salt on the roads, but it’s rare to have the type of snow you need to shift.
We had heavy snow in the south east and northern france back in December 2010, my flight to the US was cancelled on the 22nd, I managed to get one from Paris to Newark for the 23rd, and had to drive from Bedfordshire to Paris. Felt like a massive blizzard driving though it, could barely see the tracks of the vehicle 800 yards ahead coming down through france.
Landed in a clear New York on the 23rd, but then went out for dinner opposite the hotel in Tribecca, possibly that night. The snow came down, and kept coming. First time I’d ever seen a snow plow in person, and the drifts the next morning with covering taxis. It was a different world to the 3-6” of heavy snow we were used to.
Spokane in eastern WA stands in contrast, where there is an average annual snowfall of 44 inches and 17 inches of rain. Seattle averages 5 inches of snow and 40 inches of rain. Hence Spokane maintains an enviable fleet of snowplowing equipment and a deep bench of citizens-plowers… Seattle has little of that sort but quite a bit of rainwater harvesting.
Exactly. In the 20-21 winter, there was one meaningful snowfall which stuck for two days. The “big” road nearby got plowed maybe once, along with the interstate getting regular plowing. That’s “good enough” for most people.
In the mountains in the PNW, there seems to be plenty of heavy-duty equipment for snow. But in the cities at 0 elevation, it’s just not worth the money, unless it starts snowing more frequently!
West WA doesn't have the infrastructure to clear the roads(which makes sense given how infrequently it snows) combine that with some steep areas and it's fairly predictable what happens.
Western OR is the same way. Portland rarely gets snow, so we have basically no snow plows and have to just wait it out. It's also rare that the snow isn't preceded by a lot of rain, so they don't use deicer unless it's dry pavement. We don't do salt on our roads for environmental reasons either. East of the Cascades, the other 2/3 of the state, it's a completely different story.
I don't know if this is accurate but I recall an article that said another significant difference between western WA snow and snow in the states that get seriously cold for a long time in winter is that the ground in western WA usually doesn't freeze like it does in the colder states.
When snow falls in western WA, the fall at the start gets melted by the ground, and the refreezes as the following fall hits it. This results in an ice layer covered in snow.
The states with frozen ground don't get that bottom layer of snow melting, giving them just ground covered by snow which is not as challenging to drive on as snow on ice.
So what we get in western Washington is that when it snows it gives us a particularly annoying kind of snow for driving. Combine that with us not getting snow frequently enough to get good at snow driving even in regular snow, and driving is a mess when it snows here.
> When snow falls in western WA, the fall at the start gets melted by the ground, and the refreezes as the following fall hits it. This results in an ice layer covered in snow.
Which is why cities that competently deal with snow begin salting immediately when it starts snowing.
Around Thanksgiving, I drove through Portland on my way up to Washington and then back to Cali. Even with the roads dry and snow-free, traffic was a frickin' nightmare. Even so, Portlanders should feel good that traffic there is still better than driving through Seattle.
About fifty years ago, when building out new freeways was a thing, Portland revolted and stopped building new roads. We haven't built anything meaningful since completing I205 in the 80s. But the city continues to grow. Traffic sucks because the local government has bet the future on light rail.
> Traffic sucks because the local government has bet the future on light rail.
In a place with consistent high population growth like Portland, induced demand would create congestion on 2, 3, 5, or even 10 lanes of road.
Investing in modes of transport where each person requires less space is the only way to have both population growth and not look like Houston or Dallas or Atlanta.
As context for non-Portlanders, the "revolt" against additional freeways was one part of a larger effort to manage urban growth so as to avoid endless sprawl and preserve the agricultural landscape surrounding the metro area. One of the freeways that the city specifically opted out of building fifty years ago would have taken up the entire west side of the city's waterfront; because we _don't_ have a freeway running there, we instead have a beautiful park that is one of the city's gems and that provides space for music festivals, etc. right in the downtown core. Instead of strip malls and condos running all the way to the ocean in one direction and Mt. Hood in the other, the area surrounding the city is home to a whole series of vibrant agricultural industries (wine, various fruits, etc.).
Like anything else, it's about tradeoffs. This series of planning decisions had a ton of downstream consequences, both positive and negative (and I'm happy to enumerate plenty of examples of either). I certainly don't enjoy the amount of traffic that has come with the city's growth --- I'm a lifelong Portlander, and have watched it happen --- but I firmly believe that more freeways would not solve the problem. Induced demand is a thing, and there is also geography to contend with. For example, one of the biggest traffic choke points is the freeway coming in to downtown from the western part of the metro area; since the 80s, there have been several major (one might even say "meaningful") projects that have widened it about as far as it is possible to go, but at this point there's literally nowhere else to put another lane. Of course, part of why it's a choke point is that after the tunnel it immediately intersects with another ill-sited freeway --- one of the last ones built before our "revolt," and one whose siting and construction caused logistical problems that the city is still dealing with, fifty years later.
Anyway, it's complicated, but the local government "betting the future on light rail" is not the reason traffic has gotten as bad as it has. Population explosion, geography, and seventy-odd years of path-dependent decisions about freeway placement and urban planning are the reasons.
I'd much rather see a really robust network of buses than another light rail expansion. It's not convenient to get to the train, and it crawls through downtown at an average pace of 17 mph. I live all of 20 minutes from downtown (by car), and even then it would take me as long as 60 minutes during the day to catch the nearest bus, and then 30+ minutes to make it downtown (and that assumes the connections work flawlessly). It's not practical to use the bus here except for people who live and work in relatively close proximity, in certain areas of town.
I personally believe that part of the problem is Portland's style of government. There's a pretty good reason why it's the largest city in the US governed by committee. Though to be fair that may not really explain the whole problem. Just trying to design a replacement bridge across the Columbia cost 175 million without ever doing anything. Dysfunctional is an understatement for Oregon.
I have zero disagreement with you, there- I would personally much rather see a dramatically-expanded bus service than another light rail expansion, or at the very least increased service on the existing lines. In its current state, you are correct in that there are large parts of the metro area where it's just not a practical choice, and that's something that needs to change. I am lucky enough to live and work along one of the transit corridors where TriMet's bus service _does_ make sense, but it's definitely not viable in much of the metro area.
And yeah, "dysfunctional" only begins to describe the Columbia bridge debacle. But I will say, in defense of the project and its staff: that was a spectacularly challenging problem to solve. One of those fractal problems, where the more closely you look at it, the more complex it gets. The physical challenges were already going to be hard enough, and then the twelve-dimensional politics of the situation made it even more so. I don't pretend to know what the best solution would even be, but like everybody else in town I was disappointed to see it blow up after so much had been invested in it.
Well...certain areas. I myself get excited when it is snowing and I get to drive.
Seattle tends to lose it's mind when there is barely any snow...but as soon as you get past Issaquah people start driving like they have been in snow before.
I remember one trip coming over the pass maintaining 50-60mph with a ton of snow...but as soon as I got down the hill everyone was driving 25mph on the freeway.
Mostly the PNW communities inland have it together when it comes to snow. Aside from certain areas such as Tri-Cities south to Umatilla, Columbia river gorge and the mountain passes you can typically expect to at least be able to get to your destination without issues. Central Oregon (HWY97) uses what appears to be crushed lava rock on the highway...which is quite nice.
From what I have seen though...the coastal areas (or any area which doesn't regularly get snow) people, cars and road crews are not prepared for what happens when it falls.
I live and grew up in North Idaho...outside Spokane. Snow driving is just something you accept and learn to prepare for. If I lived in Portland though I would likely stay home. It isn't "my" driving I am worried about. It is the person who has near 0 snow driving experience, and/or in a car without proper tires and maintenance that is going to be the issues.
At night you should never outdrive your headlights...in winter you should never outdrive a reasonable stopping distance. If you are not prepared or comfortable operating a vehicle in the snow...don't drive for a few hours or even days.
> I remember one trip coming over the pass maintaining 50-60mph with a ton of snow...but as soon as I got down the hill everyone was driving 25mph on the freeway
Driving at 25mph in a ton of snow seems a lot more sensible than driving 50-60mph, especially if your vehicle isn't equipped with snow tires.
Snow related accidents are often caused by people not slowing down.
There was only about .5-1" of snow at the bottom...while on the top of the pass was easily 4-6" on the road.
Agreed...drive the speed which you feel safe. The point was that to the people who don't see snow "any snow" is unsafe...meanwhile...those who drive in it regularly don't even notice.
Just like the amount of snow which shuts down most of the nation doesn't even seem to make the news when it happens here.
I grew up in Michigan where snow is a regular occurance. Driving on ice at any speed feels safe, right up until the point it isn't. A lesson that is learned by dozens of drivers every winter who line the ditches of I-94 in their 4WD vehicles that lack 4-wheel stop on ice.
Absolutely...very important. Driving too fast on ice is very dangerous.
Although, I would argue it is even more risk to drive significantly higher or lower than the average speed being maintained by the traffic flow. If you do not feel safe at that speed...don't drive.
Stay home a few hours or days...let the plows get out there.
The main point of my statement wasn't about "what is a safe speed"...it was about the very clear difference of "speed of traffic flow" as soon as you get off of the pass. In the original case I was discussing...I had drove 300+ miles at 50-60mph (speed of traffic flow)...then the last 10 miles the average traffic speed cut in half (which was also the best weather conditions).
I made a comment about it to my friend when I got to Seattle and his comment was "yeah...people over here lose their minds when any snow falls"...up until that point I had no idea that was a thing.
Unless you are in Sweden and it's so cold that the snow feels more like concrete. It is "milled" in longitudinal direction, if I remember correctly, so that there is no flat surface but many small grooves. And they do have extreme headlamps, especially around the arctic circle. Driving on completely iced roads between trucks going 65mph can be quite an experience...
During the first 'snowpocalypse' in Seattle, I noticed that the first two or three days were utter chaos. After that, people had either wrecked their cars or learned to drive, and the roads were nice and quiet (if slippy, but I was comfortable with that -- as I recall, the city only had two plows at the time). Since then, I try to stay off the road for the first few days of snow, to avoid the perennial novices.
Transplants complaining about how they're better drivers than native PNWers gets pretty old after a very short while. Apparently winter weather driving accidents never happen anywhere else in the country.
I think my main issue with the PNW is the absolute cacophony of road markings and layouts (especially around cities).
There's just so much shit going on on the roads, compared to the east coast. They're little things here and there, but I found myself completely unable to drive on "autopilot." Nothing is intuitive; there's gotchas everywhere. Either there's an absolute bombardment of road markings and signs, or there's none at all (so you're either completely overloaded with information, or you don't have enough).
For example: you have bikelanes that merge into the center lane from the outside (without any strong indication, so I always assume the right-hand lane is disappearing -- but no, it's still there, so you always miss the turn). You have the absolute mess of highways that exit off into major stroads (!). Everything is so densely-populated that it's impossible to figure out where exactly you are, because there's so much going on.
It's like too much thought was put into road planning. There's too much shit going on.
Right. And as a transplant, the places you come from have snow infrastructure to handle it. Where it doesn’t typically snow, snow equipment doesn’t matter. So people used to winter driving as transplants still wouldn’t be used to unplowed, unsalted roads.
It is incredible how little self reflection people have as a whole. It is so easy to have smug self satisfaction in the misery of others for some reason.
Most people are tongue and cheek about this type of thing. When you spend every year dealing with snow, it is just a bit wacky to see how it affects people and areas who aren’t used to it. The topic has come up plenty of times in my life and it always immediately transitions into listing the obvious reasons why it happens.
But it’s an opportunity to get all territorial and worked up so we get threads like this.
Except that it isn’t very whacky at all. Infrastructure and climate differences aside- My assumption, as someone who grew up in the Great Lakes and now lives in the Puget sound area, is that people who do think it is whacky have little to no idea the difference in terrain between the upper Midwest/New England and here.
I've dealt with snow in the PNW (including Vancouver, BC) and the region really isn't great about how to deal with it. Hell, WA and OR can barely deal with driving in the rain.
If you want some humorous questions / etc. regarding snow, at the moment, check out the CHP Truckee Instagram account. 70ish miles of Highway 80 from Colfax to the Nevada state line is closed at the moment, and may be until Tuesday. All the people that "relocated" during Covid are experiencing the first real winter up there.
Driving around, slow and steady is the rule. Knowing the capabilities of your vehicle (and your driving skill limits), being prepared in case you get stuck, etc. are important.
> Hell, WA and OR can barely deal with driving in the rain.
I'm kinda surprised by this sentiment. I'm in a program in Oregon, been there for years, and drove down to Southern California. Rained the entire way. I can attest that the differences in driving in the rain are very different and definitely gets worse the more south you go. Going through the grapevine was terrifying and when I was in LA the carpool lane was just completely flooded. People always have more to improve but people in the PNW drive much safer in the rain there than most other places I've lived. People there at least know not to put on their brights in heavy traffic when it's pouring. But also I've never seen heavy flooding, especially on the highways.
As for other areas, The South is hit or miss. They get far heavier rain than the PNW but it's over a shorter period of time (though that means more flooding and so there's something to be said about what the cities could do to make things better). They do have a ton more potholes too so I'm not too surprised though. But they also have a lot less money than CA.
A thing I started doing when I lived in my first snow climate was finding an empty parking lot after the first snow of the year and really testing out my car.
Accelerate to 30-40 and slam on the brakes.
Take a sharp turn in both directions and find the speed you lose traction.
Do a few donuts.
30-40 minutes of practice every year really helps you understand how your car will perform in the snow and you can decide if you need new snow tires, brakes, etc. You'll also be honing skills for that avoiding the inevitable bozo that tries to kill you that year.
For my Tacoma, I make sure to put enough weight in the back (over the rear axle) to help offset the vehicle being front heavy. Typically in straightaways, if no one is around, on some of the rural roads I drive I'll test braking (not slamming, but just steady) to check traction. I've also replaced tires considered to have sufficient tread, but were a couple of years old, to make sure getting through a season was as safe as possible. I also do a bit of off roading.
I used to have a subaru and the better weight distribution made the car much more stable.
Multiple times in the last month, I've driven a stretch of Hwy 80 between Sierraville and Truckee (about 25mi) and have seen all sorts driving beyond their ability and having or coming very close to accidents. Always love when people try and pass with a blind turn coming up. I also tend to pull over and back off to let darwin do his thing.
A friend, observing the people who relocated to Montana, suggested that a surprise snow storm in the bay area on a weekday morning would solve the housing crisis very quickly, though for time there would be a massive backlog in the morgues.
From the sounds of it Portland is to snow as L.A. is to rain. Any sign of the slightest of moisture in the air and Angelenos lose their shit and drive like dummies.
It makes sense. The first rain after an extended dry spell can be treacherous until the oils are washed off the pavement. Once it starts raining consistently in the winter, the roads go back to normal because modern tires have great traction on wet pavement.
Sure, but visibility is also impacted and is not something that improves with consistent rain. People should always adjust their driving style when it rains.
I grew up somewhere with 50" of rain/year and I can tell you folks do not change their driving style there either (until it's raining much more torrentially than it ever does in LA), so this phenomenon is not unique to LA.
I’m currently in Ashland, and was planning to drive up to Portland today. With strong snow all along the 5 [1], I’m thinking it’s better to bunker down for a few days before doing the trip.
It’s normally a 4.5 hour drive, but with snow chains and delays I could see it being closer to 10.
Completely random question: Are you from California? The reason I ask is that you said "The 5".
Edit: To those who said that's a SoCal thing: I Know. I got razzed endlessly when I moved to Reno from the Palm Springs area for saying "The 395, The 80", which are the only two freeways in the region lol.
I lived in Florida for a long time, and the only people I remember who didn’t say “The 95” etc. were news anchors. So I always take these discussions with a grain of salt, as I do not think CA is the only place where people talk like this, and I also don’t even believe there are any regional norms about it most of the time. I assume people just repeat something they read in an article about this phenomenon.
But I would be interested to see something well-researched on the topic.
No need for research, anyone who moved from Southern California to Northern California can tell you about this very distinct difference in speech patterns.
This is something that really grinds my gears with the movie "Baby Driver".
Edgar Wright went to incredible trouble to set the film in Atlanta. It features Atlanta landmarks, culture, food, and dialect. It feels quintessentially Atlantan.
Despite that effort, they're constantly referring to highways and interstates with the definite article. "The 75", "the 85", "The Buford Highway". We don't do that here, and it sounds a bit like nails on a chalkboard.
It's hard to fault the film for this trivial issue, but it is amusing.
What bothered me more was how one chase scene (I can’t remember which one) went in like the wrong direction. I love the film, but seeing them get so many details about Atlanta almost right and then get location/direction stuff wrong was pretty funny for someone born and raised in Atlanta. I imagine it’s how LA people must feel all the time!
Interesting.. Could make for a cool Chrome extension, to analyze text on a page and show tooltips about the person that wrote it (I bet you can infer more than just where they're from!)
Thanks for posting that! I was actually thinking about that quiz my aked the question but it's been several years since I've even seen it in didn't bother searching for it lol.
I grew up in Atlanta Georgia, a place that is notoriously bad at dealing with snow [1], and never thought I would live in a place worse at snow than Atlanta. Then, after nearly a decade in New York City (a place that has snow on lock. In Brooklyn, it’ll snow 18 inches and the sidewalks and roadways will be clear by 5am. And the city is even better!), I moved to Seattle.
Seattle is worse at snow than Atlanta, something I didn’t think was possible. I avoided most of the 2019 snowpacalypse because I was in Australia (I smartly changed my flight and flew to LA early so I wasn’t stranded in the airport when the snow really hit like some of my colleagues…spending a day at Disneyland instead of worrying about making my connection to my 15-hour flight to Sydney was one of the smarter travel decisions I’ve ever made), but I was in Bellevue of all places before it really came down for a work-offsite, but it was icy and there were drifts, and it was shocking to me how poorly even the commercial areas dealt with ice and snow. I had to have my husband bring my snow boots from NYC to where I was staying 12 miles away (at The W) so that I wouldn’t break my neck walking across the street from the hotel to the venue of the off-site. I understand the lack of infrastructure, but it was again, worse than Atlanta. And Atlanta is a city that doesn’t have mountains/ski resorts nearby.
Last year, it snowed a bit and they were downright negligent about clearing out the snow and ice in front of my luxury apartment building/the busy sidewalk, making it nearly impossible to even leave (even by car, let alone if you were trying to walk). A lot of that was on the building owner, but the city was equally negligent with its lack of attempts to make streets accessible by foot or by car. A girl at UW died in 2019 because the school both didn’t put out proper signage for ice and didn’t do the rational thing and try to de-ice campus.
Like I said, I never thought I’d see a city handle snow worse than Atlanta. But the PNW (and Seattle especially) certainly does.
To be fair, the advantage of being ready for the few days of snow in either place is pretty low. I remember all the cars stranded in the interstate in Atlanta. Had to walk to pick up my kids from the school about two miles away because the buses were stuck in traffic.
Here in Seattle, I was lucky that I was only a block from a grocery store. Roads may have been bad, but I wouldn't know. Just stuck closer to home.
Of course, now I live out down a non city maintained road. Guessing it will be longer before I get out, this time.
Be careful not to conflate those west of the Cascades (esp. Seattle and Portland) with those on the east side (e.g. Bend, Spokane). Those who who live(d) east of the mountains handle snow just fine.
> Those who who live(d) east of the Mountains handle snow just fine.
I spent most of my life in Minnesota, and even there, people think they can handle snow (which they do better than folks here in the Puget Sound region). But every year, there are huge pileups, gruesome accidents, slowdowns, etc. They, just as people east of the Cascades, have more experience, but I would stop short of saying that they 'handle it just fine.'
True. It only takes one bozo to mess everything up. I often see crazy folks passing as they are heading up to ski who think they are impervious to snow / ice on the roads. BTW, Minnesota was much farther east than I meant.
It’s funny because a few days back we drove from Olympic national park back down to San Diego via Nevada just to find ourselves in an ice storm and frozen interstate (I-26 through Mt Mood); you’re legally required to have tire chains if there’s a sign saying you should use tire chains so we stayed for the night to buy some in the morning from Walmart just to find out they’re all sold out. We ended up driving through the Willamette National Forest via Eugene which is incredibly beautiful.
Never knew Oregon was this beautiful, I’ll definitely explore it more soon. :-)
> This site is still maintained by us, it's not dead. We use a weather API, so if you're wondering why it may not match what you're seeing, check here.
They probably should choose a smaller area to make this useful (for somebody).
The move to force HTTPS on literally every dopey little site on the planet is pretty annoying when you want to have a dopey little site without dealing with certificates.
Also, snow in late December is relatively rare. We missed a white Christmas by one day. Only have an inch here where I'm at, but hey, take what you can get.