Ask HN: Why Am I In College?

[blackhole]

I have been rejected twice from the Computer Science department at my college, which severely restricts the CSE courses I am allowed to take. I skip most of my classes, instead teaching myself everything out of the textbook, only attending class to turn in homework or take tests. With this state of affairs, I find myself wondering why I even bother to go to college when I'm working on a startup and only attend college to learn more about programming. Could college doom my startup to stagnation? Could it retard the startup's progress so long that by the time my product is released its already irrelevant? I've talked to several people about this, and there are 3 main arguments for staying in college:

1. Networking. The people I could meet in college are too important, even if I can't get into the CSE department itself.

Counter-argument: This only works if there isn't a better way to network with like-minded people.

2. Ensuring I don't miss out on important concepts. By taking CSE courses, I ensure i'm on an equal educational standing with everyone else and that I didn't miss any important concepts that I wouldn't have picked up during self-study.

Counter-argument: You can't possibly know everything and trying to write a perfect program gets you nowhere, so self-study would be far less time-consuming but just as effective, and I know that I am already very good at my chosen area of expertise.

3. It's a safety net. Unnecessary risk is stupid, and most startups fail miserably. The time spent at college is worth spending to ensure I don't get thrown on to the street.

Counter-argument: The time spent during college could doom the startup before it even finishes its product. Alternatively, if the startup did fail, my situation wouldn't make it unreasonable to go right back to college and find intermittent work to support myself.

I may be confidant in my ability to craft a product that can support me, but I'm sure everyone whose startups fail miserably is too. What concerns me is that, of the two internships I had, all I learned was that I absolutely detest having a normal job. If my startup fails, I'd just try another one, and then another one. I probably would never even apply for a job that required a college degree, so if I'm not going to use the scrap of paper they give me at the end, and i'm teaching myself everything out of a textbook anyway, am I wasting my time and putting my startup in danger, or would dropping out be a stupid thing to do?

For reference, the startup is not web-based - it involves games. I have 2.5 years of college to go and live with my parents somewhere on the west coast of the United States.

[_z0jz]

If you are are as skilled as you seem to be, why is the CS department rejecting you?

All the benefits of going to university only come into play if you actually leverage your experience (i.e. go to class, work with professors, network with profs and classmates, get decent grades & follow the structural rules necessary to get the right degrees, etc.). Getting into the right departments (and meeting their standards) is a key ingredient of this (sure, their rules might be quirky but they are the established social benchmark right now).

If you don't want to leverage your experience then you are in the wrong place. Though keep in mind that the inability to leverage a opportunity-filled environment like university is also a big warning sign for your future entrepreneurial career.

[blackhole → _z0jz]

The CS department rejected someone with a 3.7 GPA. I have a 3.4 GPA and scored so high on the AP exam I was exempted from both introductory courses. Their "standards" are exactly the problem here - I'm learning a lot from all of my classes simply by reading a textbook I can check out from the library, and I've taught myself everything I know about programming. Why should I subject myself to unreasonable standards for no benefit? Leveraging a situation only benefits you if it doesn't waste your time.

[_z0jz → blackhole]

A high GPA bar like this has its benefits: Climb over it and you will share access to higher quality resources (fellow students, profs, likely also higher quality teaching facilities, labs, etc.).

I am not an advocate of achieving high GPAs for its own sake, but there is a huge dividing line between somebody in a high quality CS department and somebody who isn't. Trust me, you will learn more from good teachers than you will ever learn alone (libraby books or not).

[mbenjaminsmith]

Your post is pretty long so I may have missed it, but can you afford college? Does paying for a degree and getting mediocre grades work for you / whoever is paying for it?

If so I would say go ahead and stay there, take classes, pass, but also start shipping your own products (if you're not already).

Like a lot of people I got a degree (not CS) at some bullshit private college because I felt I had to.

I'm now on my second career (CS) and my second successful business and I can tell you that my degree has meant almost nothing to me. It's probably true that my first career (in marketing) wouldn't have taken off if I had to tell people I was a college dropout, but programming is pretty unique in that regard and in my experience many/most people just want to know if you can ship a quality product or not.

Having said that, I've seen a lot of people who say they must to do their own thing really mean that they can't commit to whatever they're doing. I used to be like that. You say you're confident that you can build products that can make money. Have you done that? If not then get there first (while in college) and see how you feel.

If you're really a startup person, you can manage both college and a product to prove yourself. I don't know how your CS department works, but having a product on the market might also open that door. If not, screw them and go your own way.

Also, failure in business is not binary or permanent.

[blackhole → mbenjaminsmith]

I've been working on this project for almost 3 years and have finally gotten to a point where I'm close to getting a finished product, so no, it's not a matter of commitment. College financials are not a concern (and my grades are very good, the CS department is just anal). I can make a quality product, but shipping it and making money off of it is what's up in the air.

You are correct in that it is entirely possible for me to do both college and startup at the same time, I just don't want to be carrying a 5 pound rock with me on a marathon if I don't need it.

[shiny → blackhole]

Well, you could take a semester/quarter off and see if this product is something that could work. You don't have to full-on drop out.

Honestly, from reading your post, it doesn't sound like you're getting too much out of college (at least educationally, dunno about socially). It may not be worth your time/money/brain power. College isn't a necessity for networking with like-minded people these days.

[priv_acy]

Change majors. Try business or liberal arts. Have fun with it and learn some things outside of computers, which you seem to have down already.

[ncash → priv_acy]

Also this. I started teaching myself programming when I was in middle school, and by the time I got to college the only thing I found in our CS department was disappointment and boredom.

However, the economics department was fantastic. We also have an entrepreneurship program that is amazing. If you have a handle on Comp. Sci. stuff then I would say find some business/entrepreneurship related program to get involved in. You'll be much more prepared to launch viable products if you have some business background. Also, I think you'll find that networking is far more important (and worthwhile) in the business community at a college than in the CS community.

[dagw → priv_acy]

This. Universities are full of interesting departments teaching all kinds of fascinating subjects. I really regret not taking more advantage of this fact when I was at University. Don't be scared to leave your department and see what else is on offer. Who knows you might just stumble on an idea in some unexpected corner of academia that will turn out to be more influential to your future than any CS course you take. See for example the story about Steve Jobs taking a calligraphy class while at school.

[maxbrown → priv_acy]

To add to this, just simply choose to actively get more out of your university. If you want it, and you're really putting in the effort to search out more from it, you can usually find it. Join a CS or entrepreneurship club, e-mail cool professors in the CS department and ask to buy them coffee to chat with them. Being in school can be so much more than class if you make it that way. You only get undergrad once (alright, unless you go back for more).

[amathew]

Why go to college if you're not going to attend classes (aka being lazy), study, or attempt to get good grades?

Sure, I agree that college is over-rated and not for everyone. However, you are in college, and don't seem to be making any effort to learn or be productive. If you're going to college on taxpayer dollars or your parents money, then you are just wasting someones hard earned money. IF you stay in school, at least attend classes.

[marklabedz]

The greatest thing I took from college was the ability to approach a problem and truly explore it from different angles. (I'll admit to a liberal arts education.) The state of the art, by definition, is constantly changing, so have the ability to learn and attack challenges is very powerful in the "real world" beyond college.