There is a paragraph in the essay which stood out to me;
>>>The irony is that straight men could learn a thing or two from their gay brethren, as Andrew Sullivan implied in his insightful book on the AIDS crisis, Love Undetectable: Notes on Friendship, Sex, and Survival (1998). Often estranged from their natural families and barred from forming legally acknowledged new ones of their own, gay men, Sullivan observed, learned to rely not on the kindness of strangers but the loyalty of friends: “Insofar as friendship was an incalculable strength of homosexuals during the calamity of AIDS, it merely showed, I think, how great a loss is our culture’s general underestimation of this central human virtue.”<<<
I've experienced that in my life. The closest people I have are people who have no direct relation through blood with me. This was something really counter-intuitive to me, because I grew up in a country where family is supposed to be paramount, but I discovered that isn't so. I am willing to bet that anyone who has had to deal with forced social isolation be it through abuse, or homelessness will agree.
No one taught me that relationships are only as good as the people who compose it. Friendships don't magically happen. You have to work for them, and the cost isn't just time but it is something deeper and more intrinsic to who you are.
The smartest thing anyone could have ever said is that love is a verb. To love someone involves making "sacrifices" at one level or the other for the sake of the relationship, and most people are unwilling to do that. They don't realize that you can't have your cake and eat it too.
I think that this is the reason why most people, not just in the USA, think it's cool to be alone. They tend to desire instant results, which simply isn't possible.
Slightly OT, but I think we/society needs to find a better word than "sacrifice". To me, it invokes too much of an image of giving up power and of one-way giving.
I've had this conversation with friends (as a conversation, I mean, not an accusation nor negotiation), and usually there is agreement. At the moment, I feel I'm not recalling our best substitutes, but I am thinking of the word "contribution". We contribute to relationships. Like an investment. We put in something of value and hope/expect to grow that investment.
Like an investment in work you enjoy, it should -- on balance -- not feel like a burden. And all parties need to be contributing. Contributions may vary; at times, one may have more to give while another has less. At times, someone may need to borrow a bit of equity, e.g. when they are acutely ill.
It's when, over time, the contributions/investments do not balance, that we need to have concern. Those are not sustainable relationships. Unless, perhaps, they are offset by other relationships and we chose to accept this trade off. For example, when a family member is seriously ill, we don't necessarily withdraw our support. Friends help to balance the equation and get us, and indirectly so also our family member -- who is relying on our support -- through.
I don't see sacrifice. I see collaboration. And working with a really good team can be one of the best experiences of one's life.
Hear, hear. I'm an American and I get dirty looks when I mention that I don't talk to my family - that I didn't invite my mother or brother to my wedding - that I don't care about them. People don't believe it.
But the friends I've made -- once I got over my insularity and fear, and decided to trust unless proven otherwise, to be a friend instead of hoping for friends -- are my chosen family. They've treated me better than my family ever did.
I know that if something happens tomorrow and I'm homeless, I have 20 people who'd put me up, feed me, and take care of me until I could do it on my own. And I'd do it for them, too.
And that's because of effort and willingness and bravery and love (the verb), not accident of birth.
I know exactly what you mean. For some people their biological family is their chosen family. For some of us it simply isn't. I don't think I will have any contact whatsoever with my biological family after this year. It's not just one sided, but they've made it pretty explicit to me.
On one level it's really hard to deal with, but on the other it has taught me things in a small period of time which usually takes decades to settle in. I've learnt how to sense emotions, and whether or not I can trust someone. I've learnt the difference between anger and deep seated hatred. I've learnt the difference between the storms that pass and an eternal jupiter-esque red spot. I've learnt so much that I simply can't condense it into words, let alone a comment.
No matter what I have gained though. I still wish that things weren't like this. Everything has taken it's toll on me. The most direct result is that I have deep seated insecurities and fears about things like rejection, failure etc. The most worrying result is that a part of me, no most of me, is just old and dead (the other part increasingly vanishing part is roughly 13). As someone pointed out I am 18 and I talk like I am in my 30s & 40s. What worries me is that I really can't remember the last time I had a genuinely happy day. It's like I can't have fun. Everything from conversations to thoughts just spiral down into that survival mode. I hate it, but it's almost a part of me now and I can't imagine an existence without it.
So yeah life sucks, but at least I have a family that helps me to deal with it. Does it truly matter what's in their veins?
P.S. - I can tell that you've been through a lot of pain yourself. Is there any way I can help you to deal with it?
You sound a lot like me, 8 years ago. Except I hadn't given up on my family yet. It took a lot of time and a lot of thinking to realize that they were toxic, and I had to learn to love myself enough to stop subjecting myself to their toxicity just for the sake of "family."
> P.S. - I can tell that you've been through a lot of pain yourself. Is there any way I can help you to deal with it?
That's such a sweet thing to offer. I'm good now, though - but maybe I can help you.
It's hard to find people in person for talking about this stuff -- they don't understand, or they're in it just like you, and can't help you OUT of it.
But what really changed my life was two books, and a third I read recently that might help you too.
1. When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron. It's nontheistic buddhism, for crises. Get the audio book. It's the next best thing to having a loving parent. Listen with your heart, and do the meditations (including the lo jong - no matter how crazy it sounds). You're probably cynical about this stuff - because life has taught you to be cynical, but this is not something to be cynical about. This book has made the biggest difference in my life - the change you wouldn't believe.
I'm not a fruity religious type, or a touchy-feely new age type, but what I learned from this book -- to not run away from my emotions, to not distract myself, to embrace it, and go through the fear, and to have empathy for everyone else (and, then, myself), to accept that reality is reality no matter how much I might like it to be otherwise -- has been life-altering in the biggest way possible.
If you met me today, you'd see an extremely positive, happy, confident person, who is responsible for her own choices, and who doesn't let shit get to her -- because she knows who and what she is. That is the exact opposite of who you would have seen 7 years ago. I can attribute that almost entirely to what's in this book, and my practice of it.
2. Toxic Parents. In case there was any doubt, this book will be your best buddy telling you that you made the right choice, and it's okay.
3. Drama of the Gifted Child. This one's a bit weird, but you know what? It's good and true.
You don't have to stay the way you are now; you can be happy, and you can be sad, but you will be able to be whole. Seriously. I'm proof.
>>>Except I hadn't given up on my family yet. It took a lot of time and a lot of thinking to realize that they were toxic, and I had to learn to love myself enough to stop subjecting myself to their toxicity just for the sake of "family."<<<
I will continue to love them no matter what, but I still can't sustain contact with them. I am intersexed and I want to live life as who I am, just another girl. To them I am against god and I should not even exist. I've been called names and stuff that I don't want to repeat. In a way I can understand why they are like this. It's just socially unacceptable to be me, and their social position matters a lot to them.
>>>It's hard to find people in person for talking about this stuff -- they don't understand, or they're in it just like you, and can't help you OUT of it.<<<
I know what you mean. I just want to be loved for who I am you know. I want to be held, kissed and hugged. I just need to feel safe and secure. My real father can't be there for me all the time as he has to work and we live apart. So, I really feel guilty whenever I call on him.
I did figure out that I needed a lot of advice, though. So, I started contacting people around me and I even emailed one of my heroes (he is simply awesome). Now, I actually do have people I can talk to. No matter how far apart we are. They're my family.
Can I ask a question though? How did you deal with the guilt? I got into physically violent situations after I turned 16 and for a while I was the aggressor, and I just can't deal with the thought that I hurt another human being. It doesn't matter what they were doing. It's just unacceptable to me. I should have been smart enough to just swallow it.
That guilt was overpowering for me back then it used to be the reason why I didn't think I was good enough to exist. I can't count the number of times I've tried to kill myself over it, but I couldn't do it since it would have hurt my sister. The potency has evaporated, but that sense of guilt combined with worthlessness still exists.
>>>But what really changed my life was two books, and a third I read recently that might help you too.<<<
They sound quite interesting and awesome, but I can't buy them right now. Not only I don't have a simple penny to my name. I also can't bring such stuff into the house, or it will prompt a really, really bad outburst.
By the way, yeah, Drama of the Gifted Child is a bit weird and I doubt that I will get much mileage out of it, since I don't think I am "gifted".
The "Gifted" has nothing to do with intellect or aptitude, but kids who learn from a very early age that their role is to fill their parents needs -- to please/protect/take care of them, to hide what is wrong, to make excuses, to say "they mean well."
That really opened my eyes to a few things. For one, she talked about little children who were so hurt that they shut off all emotion - "little stone children" - and that was me, until the crisis that broke me open so badly that I was able to listen to the message in When Things Fall Apart.
As for the guilt… I had tremendous amounts of guilt. My mother used to beat me, and when I got big enough, I started to hit back. She became really mentally ill as I grew up, because she always chose to be a victim, and though she was still mean and abusive, she was also weak and helpless -- so naturally I hated myself for my lack of control as much as I hated her for abusing me. I moved out at 15 and change because I was quite sure I'd either kill her, or myself.
I also hurt (emotionally) other people when I was growing up because I was so torn and broken, and that tortured me for years.
The only thing that helped me was When Things Fall Apart.
In short, the lesson is this: Learn to practice compassion for every person. To be human is to be deeply flawed. Everyone is deeply flawed - and so everyone deserves a shot at redemption, or at least forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn't only help the person forgived -- that almost doesn't matter, but it helps the person doing the forgiving. Forgiveness also doesn't mean you let them hurt you more, but that you recognize that they are weak, scared, flawed, and hurting, no matter how horrible their exterior is... and that's really the default state of humanity.
If you realize that about other people… and you practice compassion and forgiveness for them… then you realize that you, too, are only human, deeply flawed, and worthy of redemption and forgiveness. Then you practice compassion and forgiveness for yourself.
Here's an excerpt from When Things Fall Apart, one that particularly struck a chord with me - one I will never forget:
It's as if you just looked at yourself in the mirror, and you saw a gorilla. The mirror's there; it's showing "you", and what you see looks bad. You try to angle the mirror so you will look a little better, but no matter what you do, you still look like a gorilla. That's being nailed by life, the place where you have no choice except to embrace what's happening or push it away.
That is the essence of lovingkindness meditation. And it really, honestly, works. I can admit now all the bad things I've done… it still hurts a little, but it's nothing like the overpowering guilt, shame and self-hatred I felt for myself before. I can talk about it in public, like here, and stand tall, even though I know people will judge me and hate me for it.
I'm sorry your living situation is so tenuous.
Please email me at amy @ slash7 com and I'll send you the MP3s of the Pema Chodron book. Nobody has to know you have them. And I'm sure Pema Chodron herself would approve of me sending them to you.
Loners are not necessarily lonely people.
Perhaps it was only my impression reading the article, but in some sections, the author tends to confuse "loneliness" and "solitude".
True loners are people "suffering" from schizoid personality disorders.
I should use the term "suffering" carefully because true loners actually enjoy being alone, they admire self-reliance and feel stronger by not _needing_ others.
The beauty of modern society is how easy it is
to isolate yourself from others and live like a king -- compared to hundreds of years ago, where people were needed to get the little things in life.
About _meaningful_ friendship:
The Internet and the ability to travel (if needed) helps you experience the third flavor (shared pursuit of virtue) without being limited by a physical location, face to face communication and simply helps you find like-minded people.
A few, who are charming but socially afraid. (Depending on your outlook, I am either supremely approachable, or outright terrifying - because I am both loud and friendly.)
The ones who have absolutely no social skills, no. But they feel very different in their lack of social skills than a person who has a genuine mental problem. It's like, they've gotten so long by decrying it, that now it'd be a big blow to their ego to do something as stupid and minor as read a book on social skills. You can see in their eyes that they're hurting from being alone, though.
I've also met lots of loners who probably do "have something wrong with them", who are wrong in a scary fashion. They certainly exist - it's a symptom. But many who have the symptom don't have the disease.
I think a lot of us (at least who were born before the 90s) had these friendships as kids if their family didn't move much.
I had a only a couple of good friends, but I had them for 10+ years. We'd stay at each other houses, spend time with each other's families. Play, watch movies, get into fights, goof around and so on.
Then eventually, as girlfriends came around, as we went to different universities, different countries, it was hard to keep the same level of friendship. First they become just "acquaintances", then sadly, they become strangers...
The point being, I think a lot of us know what the article means, it is just that we failed to hang on to it.
In America people just move more. It is hard to foster good friendships without face contact. Don't matter what the resolution of your Skype video, it is just not the same.
So, we are stuck. We'll end up spending more time on HN, playing Warcraft, working.
Another sensitive issue is that a higher proportion of HN-ers are probably introverts. Nothing wrong with that. I am one too. That means it is easier by default to be lonely. But in the long run it also hurts.
"It is hard to foster good friendships without face contact. Don't matter what the resolution of your Skype video, it is just not the same."
It's common here to read people claiming that you don't need to go to college when you can learn as much, or more, form the Web. This is true perhaps for book learning but it misses the social aspect. School is not just about filling your head with stuff. It's about meeting new people, having face-to-face discussions, learning to work in teams, learning to be someplace on time and prepared, and so on.
"Another sensitive issue is that a higher proportion of HN-ers are probably introverts. Nothing wrong with that. I am one too. That means it is easier by default to be lonely. But in the long run it also hurts"
Somewhat tangential, but I beseech all of you who help organize, or ven just attend, tech gatherings to help break down the barriers of this introversion.
I'm amazed and disappointed to see so many people go to conferences, spend all their time hanging with co-workers who've also come along, then go home without really meeting any new people.
I appreciate how hard it can be to get out of your comfort zone and push yourself to socialize. Especially since the reaction from many other geeks is often abysmal. (Note to women: Sometimes when guys at a tech conference treat you with disdain or incoherent puzzlement it's because they're sexist jerks. But sometimes, maybe more often, it's because they're simply clueless unsocial oafs.)
Tech gatherings need more ways to break up the default cliques people tend to and promote more intermingling of people who've never met before.
It's a lot harder to make new friends when you're older, too. Most of the people I meet don't really have time to make new friends; they barely keep their old friends in maintenance mode, getting together with them every couple of months for some ancient ritual they've always done together, such as golf. You have lunch or drinks with somebody once a week, and you're in. You know, that's a pretty high level of recognition from them. But it's futile; it's going to take you two years to get to know them at that rate.
As if to make my point, an old friend of mine announced his birthday plans today. He's going to a water park (for his stepdaughter) and a bed and breakfast (for his wife.) The rest of us? Nothing. No party, no dinner and drinks, nothing. He's living in a new city and has nobody close by except family, but he's got friends wanting to come from out of town to see him. One is me; another is our best friend from high school, whom he hasn't seen in over a year. So, maybe some other weekend, he says. Fuck that; I know that song. It'll never happen. I'd write him off as an asshole and a lost cause if that wasn't typical for the married guys I know. Should I even bother with "friends" like that, or should I forget about him and call him again when his kids are out of the house?
> It is hard to foster good friendships without face contact. Don't matter what the resolution of your Skype video, it is just not the same.
I haven't entirely found this to be the case, though it's different. I'd say my closest friends are about halfway split between people I mainly talk to online and people I mainly talk to face-to-face. With a handful of people I do both frequently, but with some people one or the other feels more acquaintancey--- there are people I'm good friends with IRL who I only exchange matter-of-fact type of information with online (locations, phone numbers, times of events, etc.), and people I'm good friends with online where hanging out IRL feels really weird and acquaintancey (get a beer and talk about the weather or something).
Textual communication with someone who's also fluent in it feels to me like speaking another language; has a different set of strengths/weaknesses, cadences, emotional cues, etc. than spoken English does. The fluency is important, though: maintaining a text-chat-based friendship with people who didn't grow up on BBSs or something similar is much harder in my experience.
I didn't move the whole time I was growing up and had the same friends the whole first part of my life before college and a simliar thing is happening right now with us going down the path of becoming strangers. However, I do think that sometimes a person does need to go out make new friends. I just don't have anything in common with my old friends from high school. For better or worse they are going down a different path. I really resonate with this article though and thoroughly believe I need close friendships to be happy, but I do not think that one should hold onto old friendships, especially ones from high school that you were likely forced into, at all costs.
Is this really more of a severe problem in America than in South Korea or Japan? How important is population density factor into ones loneliness? Yes the US is large, Some googling on Urban Alienation turned this up though, food for though: http://nymag.com/news/features/52450/
I really think the main culprit of American Loneliness is piss-poor urban planning. There are so many areas of urban sprawl where instead of putting the store fronts directly on the side-walk and having communal parking garages behind the stores, each store or public place gets its own half-mile of desert pavement between the sidewalk and the destination, with a patchwork of green barricades thrown in for good measure.
Small shops can't stay in business because there is no foot-traffic to support them. There is no ambient sense of community because it is a generic pavement desert for cars rather than a community for humans. You can't discover places in these communities, the store has to be gigantic and you make a conscious decision
Living in a city with zero urban planning is like living in no city at all -> no community -> no feeling of belonging.
If everyone simply told their city council to approve no more building permits unless the store-front was on the sidewalk American Lonliness would be solved. Otherwise of course we will be lonely, because we aren't even living in real cities meant to be used by people.
Maybe so. I've lived in the Philippines and it's not a developed country so this isolation problem is not much of an issue there (yet). But their culture is becoming more and more 'American' and gradually losing the closeness of friends and family and I'm afraid of what it's going to be like years in the future. I hope it doesn't become another USA but it very well could, or even worse.
Of the big names the author dragged in (and that I recognized) none was in any way that I can identify a collectivist. Most lived or flourished before socialism was named.
>>>The irony is that straight men could learn a thing or two from their gay brethren, as Andrew Sullivan implied in his insightful book on the AIDS crisis, Love Undetectable: Notes on Friendship, Sex, and Survival (1998). Often estranged from their natural families and barred from forming legally acknowledged new ones of their own, gay men, Sullivan observed, learned to rely not on the kindness of strangers but the loyalty of friends: “Insofar as friendship was an incalculable strength of homosexuals during the calamity of AIDS, it merely showed, I think, how great a loss is our culture’s general underestimation of this central human virtue.”<<<
I've experienced that in my life. The closest people I have are people who have no direct relation through blood with me. This was something really counter-intuitive to me, because I grew up in a country where family is supposed to be paramount, but I discovered that isn't so. I am willing to bet that anyone who has had to deal with forced social isolation be it through abuse, or homelessness will agree.
No one taught me that relationships are only as good as the people who compose it. Friendships don't magically happen. You have to work for them, and the cost isn't just time but it is something deeper and more intrinsic to who you are.
The smartest thing anyone could have ever said is that love is a verb. To love someone involves making "sacrifices" at one level or the other for the sake of the relationship, and most people are unwilling to do that. They don't realize that you can't have your cake and eat it too.
I think that this is the reason why most people, not just in the USA, think it's cool to be alone. They tend to desire instant results, which simply isn't possible.