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Liu Cixin, China’s hottest science-fiction writer (washingtonpost.com)
140 points by bootload on Aug 9, 2015 | hide | past | favorite | 81 comments



Warning, spoilers below.

I recently finished the first book of the "The Tree Body Problem" series (the second one will be translated to English soon) and I really enjoyed the beginning and middle part of it, which are packed with interesting scientific ideas and an intricate and captivating plot. Towards the end the book tends to become a lot more unrealistic and even a bit "cheesy" though. An example would be the hyper-dimensional computers that the Trisolarians send to Earth to hinder our scientific progress. Still, it is a very good read and packed with fascinating ideas that will make you think.

Another example of very good contemporary science fiction is Ramez Naam's "Nexus Arc" series of books, which I actually liked much better than the Three-Body Problem, and which are a bit more plausible and realistic as well.


"The Three Body Problem" is a nice book, but far from great. However, the 2nd instalment, "The Dark Forest" is going to blow your mind. It's the best sci-fi book ever written in Chinese, and IMHO the best since Isaac Asimov's Foundation series. I have long doubted if any Chinese could write a great Sci-fi. It's such a pleasure proven to be wrong!


Did you read The Dark Forest in Chinese? What about The Three Body Problem?

I read the latter in English. I wonder how much of the sometimes tediously long exposition and ham-handed language was due to translation.


Would one enjoy the second book without reading the first?


Yes. I read the first one after finished the second.


thanks for that! I had the same opinion about the Three Body Problem... but I'll give the Dark Forest a shot..


I might suggest giving the Rho Agenda book trilogy a whirl: http://www.amazon.com/Second-Ship-Rho-Agenda-Book-ebook/dp/B...

The author does a good job of keeping the science plausible and grounded in reality. It certainly does get fantastical, but never to the point of distraction. I never found myself making eye rolls at the book and it's clear the author, Richard Philips, did his research.

The story itself is entertaining and it features very short chapters, which makes it easy to find a stopping point very quickly when you need it. There are a lot of intertwined subplots to follow, but never too many as to be overwhelmed. And that also means if one of them is boring (I didn't quite like the reporter's one), then you can sort of gloss over those sections. And the short chapters keep the "pain" of those sections to a minimum at a time.

And as a bonus, it's free to rent on Amazon Prime. I'd definitely give it a try.


never skip affiliate-link day...


Sorry, I was on my phone and it was the easiest way to get a short link. I've removed it and replaced it with a generic link.


No need to be sorry and thanks for being polite on the internet :)



Thank you for the recommendation, I've seen "Nexus Arc" title but kind of glossed over it.


One interesting thought:

"... there are many civilizations in the universe, they all want to survive, and there is only so much space out there. Follow the logic through, and it’s clear that every civilization must regard every other civilization as an existential threat, leaving attack on sight as the only safe strategy. All that keeps technologically inferior civilizations safe is the ignorance of others about their existence."

"And here is humanity firing messages into space, building bonfires and standing beside them screaming, “Here I am! Here I am!”


This assumes every other civilization thinks like humanity does. While there may be many that do, there may be many that don't. And it seems that humanity's progress points towards a direction where people are much more peaceful than they are now, simply because the resource allocation problem might be solved with technology. And it also makes sense to assume that civilizations that don't move towards more peaceful existences would end up killing themselves given that technological progress usually gives individuals more power to be destructive.

So another interesting thought is that if there are civilizations out there who are more advanced than us, it's likely that they are by default peaceful and not aggressive, because if they were aggressive they would have stopped existing due to escalating internal conflicts aided by advanced technology.


@adnzzzzZ obviously we have no way of knowing, but for argument's sake, I believe for every assumption you make there's an equally compelling rebuttal.

"This assumes every other civilization thinks like humanity does"

Survival of the fittest is a fact of life, and whatever mindset one has about it may be irrelevant.

As game theory proves, the majority, or even all players may dislike the game, but they have to play it all the same.

"the resource allocation problem might be solved with technology"

Perhaps there are resource allocation problems that can't, eg. the scarcity of habitable planets.

"it's likely that they are by default peaceful and not aggressive, because if they were aggressive they would have stopped existing due to escalating internal conflicts aided by advanced technology"

Or it could be a bell curve with a self-destructing "war of all against all" on one side, "peaceful but defenseless monks" on another, and the middle-of-the-road compromise of "disciplined legions where backstabbing is forbidden" being best fitted for survival, preying on less efficient civilizations from both ends of the spectrum alike.


Scarcity of habitable planets is absolutely solvable with technology - space ships, stations etc. Sufficiently advanced technology may also allow people to switch to more efficient bodies, or upload their consciousness to computers, or simply different forms designed for 'uninhabitable' worlds, or space itself.


One series (that I'll leave unnamed to not spoil anything) suggests that the limiting factor isn't habitable planets, but wars ended up being fought over limited availability of metal in the universe. You can build your own space ships and stations, but eventually the raw materials have to run out no matter what you're making.

There are of course other limits that may or may not be solvable, like most of that metal being stuck in relatively deep gravity wells. But it's still an interesting thought.


Maybe, of course, but we don't know that, that's my point :) There's also a question of costs, and artificial stations could be totally insufficient to sustain a civilization in long run.


Agreed. It also ignores the practical issue of actually getting to another planet in order to conquer it.


This is the exact plot of Liu CiXin's fiction.

Suppose you wanna conquer a civilization 1M lightyears away, but by the time you get there, the technology of the civilization will out grow yours. What's your strategy?


The one whoe gets c on the rocks and those into your blocks, wins this argument. A strange game where not to participate, is not a option, but a embraced necessity.

One can imagine a conquering civilisation though, that has peace enforced on the inside.


I like Peter Watts on this. WARNING--this will be a spoiler of sorts for Blindsight. So... go read it. It's online for free, as is a fair amount of his back catalog, and it is a CLASSIC of harder-than-hard SF. http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

> Imagine that you encounter a signal. It is structured, and dense with information. It meets all the criteria of an intelligent transmission. Evolution and experience offer a variety of paths to follow, branch-points in the flowcharts that handle such input. Sometimes these signals come from conspecifics who have useful information to share, whose lives you'll defend according to the rules of kin selection. Sometimes they come from competitors or predators or other inimical entities that must be avoided or destroyed; in those cases, the information may prove of significant tactical value. Some signals may even arise from entities which, while not kin, can still serve as allies or symbionts in mutually beneficial pursuits. You can derive appropriate responses for any of these eventualities, and many others.

> You decode the signals, and stumble:

> I had a great time. I really enjoyed him.

> Even if he cost twice as much as any other hooker in the dome—

> To fully appreciate Kesey's Quartet—

> They hate us for our freedom—

> Pay attention, now—

> Understand.

> There are no meaningful translations for these terms. They are needlessly recursive. They contain no usable intelligence, yet they are structured intelligently; there is no chance they could have arisen by chance.

> The only explanation is that something has coded nonsense in a way that poses as a useful message; only after wasting time and effort does the deception becomes apparent. The signal functions to consume the resources of a recipient for zero payoff and reduced fitness. The signal is a virus.

> Viruses do not arise from kin, symbionts, or other allies.

> The signal is an attack.

> And it's coming from right about there.


>> The only explanation is that something has coded nonsense in a way that poses as a useful message; only after wasting time and effort does the deception becomes apparent. The signal functions to consume the resources of a recipient for zero payoff and reduced fitness. The signal is a virus.

Hmmm ... this makes me think of how much time I spend reading information on the Internet, reducing my fitness with little payoff. A virus indeed.


> every civilization must regard every other civilization as an existential threat

I've wondered about this! If "the singularity" is something that really can happen, then perhaps it IS wise to fear any civilization that has developed basic computing, as it could quickly spawn an incredibly advanced, immortal being in a very short amount of time.

And if it can happen, then I'm sure at some point in history, an AI did take hold somewhere. Realizing how dangerous this whole singularity thing can be, it sought out the destruction of any biological life that could someday create their own singularity.

I've wondered if the Fermi paradox is simply that a few AI's developed long ago, and decided not to take any chances.


I like the perspective of Stanislaw Lem on this, especially in His Master's Voice - there may be others shouting out there, but we have not the ability to understand their shouts, we may even have problems understanding that a shout is a shout and not just random noise.

Later pretentious edit: To quote Wittgenstein, "If a lion could speak, we could not understand him."


I disagree with this view. If a species is intelligent enough to shout and desires to be heard, not sounding like random noise is the first criteria they will address.


We couldn't even understand the language of one of the great empires (Egypt) until we found a rock containing translations into other known languages.


But we could distinguish it as a language from the background noise of the sand/Rock.

Finding a message would be hugely significant, even if we're too dumb to decode it.


>Finding a message would be hugely significant, even if we're too dumb to decode it.

That is actually what the majority of my above mentioned His Master's Voice is about - is this relatively regularly appearing signal a message? Or is it just regularly looking noise from some physical object we haven't discovered yet?


If that regular noise produces prime numbers, it is very unlikely to be natural. Species that have the ability to send signals into space also have the ability to show their intelligence. Whether actual communication is possible is a different question.


All the white noise of the sun could indeed just be part of the galactic network, of which we have not yet discovered the keys .. so it may look like white-noise until we find the key. I'm happier with that position than that, so far, we just don't know the message because there has not been a 'good one we can understand easily', i.e. ufo on the whitehouse lawn ..


Old Egyptian developed and was never meant to be "decrypted" from scratch.

Some thing will have to be the same for the aliens. Some things like mathematics (Pi, Pythagoras, Primes). If you send a message that needs to be understood, send mathematical information.


"I disagree with this view. If a species is intelligent enough to shout and desires to be heard"

It may desire to be heard and understood, but not necessarily by everyone.


Isn't this one of the goals of cryptography - to make intelligent messages indistinguishable from noise from all but the intended recipient?


"...and there is only so much space out there"

How so?



If a scenario like that was true we shouldn’t be here in the first place. Assuming that there is an advanced civilization out there in a killing spree all they’d have to do is launch a legion of probes in the outskirts of the galaxy and once they find sentient life unleash a biological weapon and eradicate it once and for all. They don’t have to find us by listening to radio waves. They could just look for planets that could support life, same as we do with our Kepler mission. Only they could have spotted Earth hundreds of thousands of years ago, so no chance for humanity to evolve in our current state at all.


Maybe they spotted earth millions of years ago and wiped out the dominant dinosaur population mammals being unaffected? :]


Unless Earth life as we know it (unicellars, dinosaurs, humans - everything) WAS this biological weapon that eradicated whatever else would normally have evolved here ; )


It's exactly what the 2nd instalment about: a `scientific` definition of good/evil in the scale of universe, and its consequence, the Femi Paradox.



I don't think this book deserves that much hype. I have mostly read it (hasn't quite finished the last chapter) but really didn't think much about it.


SPOILERS - don't read unless you've read the book:

I read the book earlier this year and I loved it. One thing I had been thinking about though was the carbon nanotube wire and the ship.

Single-atom-thick wires used as knives have shown up in science-fiction before. In Ringworld, for example, a character is decapitated when they run into a nano-wire strung across a path.

In The Three Body Problem, I don't think you could ever 'cut' metal like that with carbon nanotubes - you'd have to overcome the cumulative bonding energies of all of those iron atoms in the ship and I doubt even the ship's engines running at full blast could push hard enough to do that. And that's assuming that a string of nanotubes has the strength to resist all of that tension. Apparently carbon nanotubes can resist about 100000N of tensile force (about a 10000kg weight in earth's gravity), so perhaps it wouldn't break - but I doubt that the metal in the ship would cleave, either.

Is there anyone who knows more about chemistry/solid state physics/materials science to comment?


The description of the plot strongly reminds me of relationship of china with the industrialized nations in the 19th century - huge technology gap and threat of effective colonization from 'alien' barbarians. Is it popular because it's inspired by a historic national trauma or because it's actually good?


The science fiction genre is often so much about ideas that the difference becomes moot.

For example, Robert Heinlein's books are hardly "actually good" in any sense understood by conventional literal criticism, but they certainly have made a lasting impression by extrapolating upon some very American political ideas and national archetypes.


every author comes with his/her background, but IMHO the historical root plays a much less significant role in ttbp trilogy than it does in grrm's asoiaf. ttbp is somewhat more close to Cthulhu Mythos in which mankind feels powerless facing alien with unknown purpose and incomprehensible technology.


I'm pretty sure that if we faced an alien invasion in 400 years we'd spend the first ~350 of those doing absolutely nothing about it. After all, everyone we know will be dead long before that happens, so what's the point? Most people would probably just ignore it.


I'm surprised they didn't mention his translator, Ken Liu (no relation), who recently published a very entertaining fantasy epic of his own, The Grace of Kings.


Warning this review is quite spoloilery on his books.

What I found most interesting with the first novel 'The Three-Body Problem' was it to me shows an immature view to science by the Chinese.

This is assuming I'm guessing correctly how this book sits with the public and scientific community there. Maybe it's not considered Sci-Fi in China. I'm not saying it's pulp either.

An interesting and entertaining read anyway.


'The Three-Body Problem' ... shows an immature view to science by the Chinese.

This is a dangerous way to view another culture. Instead of accepting that an author is an independent creator and a work is an independent creation, you seem to be saying that any Chinese work can be interpreted as a slice of "what China is like".

There's no such thing as immutable "Chinese-ness" that would be inevitably expressed by Chinese authors. To think otherwise is basically Orientalism in the Edward Said meaning [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)


This is absurd. How could you judge view to science by just a fiction? Do you consider star wars as a mature view to science?


Star Wars was not vetted by any government officials for its ideological purity before publication, is the difference. Anything that is published in China, by definition is representative of the opinions of the Party.


It doesn't work that way.

For example, from http://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-Censorship-China-A...

"Contrary to previous understandings, posts with negative, even vitriolic, criticism of the state, its leaders, and its policies are not more likely to be censored. Instead, we show that the censorship program is aimed at curtailing collective action by silencing comments that represent, reinforce, or spur social mobilization, regardless of content."


In the last month, off the top of my head:

* Mass arrests of human rights attorneys and dissidents: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/world/asia/china-arrests-h...

* Online political dissent shut down: http://www.afr.com/technology/social-media/how-china-stopped...


No one is saying that there is no censorship or repression, but rather it works differently than most people think it does. Though I will concede that the paper is quite a few years out of date.

The point I was trying to make is that, a sweeping statement such as "Anything that is published in China, by definition is representative of the opinions of the Party.", simply isn't true.

It is not even true for the mainstream media, nevermind a work of fiction.


Looks to me like you've never been active on Weibo or spent much time in China. You'd have to be an idiot to publish media critical of the state at any scale.


No I haven't, but if you have the data to show otherwise, then by all means write it up.


Do you seriously expect the PRC to publish pristine data on on arrests or executions related to anti-state speech or activities?


No, but there is also a wide spectrum of opinion/speech available in China between anti-state and pro-state.

The point I am trying to make is that people think China is a smidgen way from North Korea, when the actual difference is night and day.


Is this statement parody?

If not, then you are incredibly ignorant about China.


The latter, I guess. We read stories in the press all the time about authors and "dissidents" being locked up, censorship of the Internet, etc etc. Are you saying none of that is true?


>We read stories in the press all the time about authors and "dissidents" being locked up, censorship of the Internet, etc etc. Are you saying none of that is true?

It is true, though not to the extremes I think you believe. I would guess that you're getting downvoted because you go from that to "Anything that is published in China, by definition is representative of the opinions of the Party." which is just patently not true (there is plenty of criticism of the CCP in both official published mediums - print, media, etc. - and even more so on blogs, weibo, etc.)

Lastly, your statement can also be applied to many western countries...


> it to me shows an immature view to science by the Chinese

A daring thought as it is 'just' a fictional novel ? Can you elaborate on how you came to that conclusion ?


You went from fictional literature to "The scientific community in China is immature"? What?


The Simpsons taught me everything I know about American culture. Did you know they believe a giant dome is to stop a city from spreading pollution/trash?


What is immature about the view of science in the book? It seems to go to great (even unnecessary) lengths to adhere closely to 'real' science. Certainly the author's understanding of science is far beyond that of the average person in the United States or anywhere else.

I will say the book provided an interesting insight into some people in China's view of the West. It reinforced what I've observed, a love/hate perspective mixing an admiration of achievements, inferiorty complex / assumption of Westerners' superiority (undeserved, surprising, and embarassing, but I've seen it many times), and resentment of Westerners' arrogance and disregard. People in the West have forgotten or written off the horrors inflicted under colonialism, including what Chinese call their 'Century of Humiliation"; people in the countries that were oppressed often have not.


This is actually a great book. I read it a few months ago and can't wait for the release of the sequel.


>A high-ranking U.S. official thinks that suicide tactics might be effective against the Trisolarans. He visits the leader of al-Qaeda to propose an alliance, but the terrorist boss tells him that his organization has renounced violence and is lost in ennui.

al-Qaeda™, Suicide Consultants


Or, maybe this planet (Earth) is another planet's hell.


Washington Post is now a flagrant Amazon marketing machine.

I'm calling it now. Facebook buys the NY Times.

See you later journalism.


The NYT book list is already a joke.


Not sure what you're talking about, I didn't see a single amazon link in the article. They even link to google books instead.


Bezos owns the Washington Post. Bezos owns the biggest book seller in the world.


"... the Trisolarans, are en route with a giant fleet of warships. It will take them 400 years to reach Earth, leaving our panic-stricken species in a state of fevered war preparation. From afar, the Trisolarans incapacitate our scientific research and monitor our communications. We can’t bridge the gap in technology, and the second we discuss anything, the enemy knows all about it ... "

Sounds like the author is tapping into the fear of being invaded by USA? with the NSA listening in on everything? and preparations for an inevitable war having to be made

I will pick up this book to read once I can find it on shelves, sounds like good sci-fi albeit its obvious who the "Trisolarans" are meant to be ;)


It was far before the Snowden revelation when the book was completed. And as a Chinese, I don't remember anyone, from whichever political side, expressed fear about invasion from the United States. Unless the US wants to drag the whole world into nuclear winter.


Its a sci-fi book for gods sake,

thats what scifi has always done, explore current events and extrapolated future from the point of view of FICTION AND SCIENCE

sheehs whats the fucking point of discussing anything on this site if you are going to downvote opinions/theories you do not agree with.


It's not the opinion or theory we're downvoting, it's the way you present it.


Yep, it's all about the US. Everything, everywhere is all about Americans.


If you read the 2nd book, you'll find out Trisolarans is probably more like Japanese. I can't represent all Chinese, but for me, US at its worst is an annoying spoiled teenager, but Japan is another story.


So be cause you disagree with my theory you have to go down-voting me?

sci-fi is often based on current geopolitical fears, just look at Battlestar Galactica reboot few years back reflecting on the wars in the middle east.


> you have to go down-voting me

First off, stop whining about downvotes. Second, I don't downvote anyone.

> sci-fi is often based on current geopolitical fears

And you provide no proof of your ideas other than it must be based on the US.

Lets assume it MUST be beasd on current events, and not the fact that nations have used espinage to monitor and sabotage other nations progress since there was a second nation to spy on. Why does it have to be the American's this is based on? The British spy. The Canadians spy. The French are well known practitioners of industrial espionage. The Russians spy. North Korea spys. The Chineese government themselves spy. If this has to be based on current events, why could this not be looking at Chineese spying from the other side?

But no, it MUST be based on the Americans. Everything is about America. There is nothing else to write about.




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