I've been called a bitch to my face during architectural debates. I've had responses to my technical comments come back as "whatever, sudo make me a sandwich". Been asked while doing interviews, "Oh wait you're not HR?" I've gone to many presentations contain sexist images, etc. Throughout my career I've been constantly had to deal with implications that I don't belong - and that my opinions can be dismissed..
Yet, somehow I manage to keep the perspective that technology isn't populated by sexist assholes - sure the ones that are there stand out and make up a lot of the things that come to mind when I'm stressed. But really it's a small percentage [even though that small percentage can really get to you].
Try to keep the same perspective about women, the vast majority of us aren't "bitches".
I don't know you, so I can only make assumptions and extrapolations from what you've revealed here, but it sounds to me like you're crossing up "let's have a conversation" and "let me buy you a drink so we can go play some horizontal mambo."
Now it's totally possible that you just want to chat, but "can I buy you a drink" is often interpreted as the latter.
As lots of us on HN trend towards the geekier side of life, social cues sometimes don't come as naturally to us as they do to many others - it takes time and effort to not be socially awkward, but it's 100% worth it.
The next time something like that happens, try reviewing exactly what happened, how things might have been misinterpreted, and how you can learn & grow from it.
Also keep in mind that there are lots of people who _are_ jerks, but gender has nothing to do with it.
Most importantly, don't let it bias you, and keep your chin up!
Thanks for the kind words man!...My situation is actually not as hopeless as I am leading people to believe here.
The point I was trying to make was that a bunch of negative experiences with women when you are young leaves very deep scars and these scars manifest themselves as unconscious biases so much that whenever you see a beautiful woman (who will most probably reject you if you tried!) you are automatically biased against her.My brain does this to me so often even though I think I am logical than most other people.
Now I will make another point that is also controversial.(someone needs to say these things!)
See when you grow your skills interacting with women a point comes when the things you cant change matter much more than the things you can, so much that the situation seems pretty helpless.
So at that point even if I bought really expensive clothes and bought myself a mercedes or say became a really smooth talker, how women respond to me would only marginally improve as compared to the non-possible changes such as changing my race to become white...changing my height to become six feet tall etc.
So no matter what I do a six feet tall white guy or a good looking muscular black guy will always have significantly higher odds of attracting a given woman over me.
The more you approach the limit the more you begin to see this brutal truth of the dating world.The things that matter most are things you are born with and this sometimes causes you develop significantly negative feelings towards women as a whole.
> The things that matter most are things you are born with and this sometimes causes you develop significantly negative feelings towards women as a whole.
Wrong. You're suffering from confirmation bias.
Guys obsess about money and looks to prove their worth to females, but most of that shit doesn't matter, actually. (It's held against you if you're severely deficient, of course.)
What does? A strong sense of self-identity, confidence, the ability to be both a risk-taker and a stable provider, and, more generally, being an interesting person. These are much harder to work on, so you don't hear as much talk about them. You need to be able to enjoy your life without a girlfriend. You need to have something you love to talk about, and, preferably something you can be good at.
Suck up your pride, ask for help, and start working toward taking responsibility for more of your life.
I find it sad that the dating world has come up in this discussion. While I understand where the points came from, I don't believe that anyone's perception of anyone else as a potential sexual/romantic partner has a place in a discussion about the working world. Whether or not women are attracted to a particular person, to a particular programmer, or to the stereotype of a "programmer", has no bearing on their ability to program.
Nope, but I bet she's be in a situation where men expected her to drop everything to make herself sexually available for a stranger.
Everyone wants to be seen as desirable, but it is not an entire gender's fault that the specific women you've approached don't respond to your advances. It may seem counter-intuitive, but the best way I've found to get dates is to treat women like interesting people instead of potential dates, while putting effort into making myself conventionally attractive (working out, getting regular hair cuts, careful grooming, conversational techniques). It's a lot of work, but it's been more effective than deciding the problem is women. Women talk to each other: the friend you make today has a bunch of friends she can set you up with tomorrow. I mean, if the problem is "all women" you might as well give up.
Plus, in the meantime I've met a bunch of interesting people and had interesting conversations I'd otherwise have missed out on because I was only considering women as potential romantic partners. It is possible to have fulfilling intellectual, emotional and social relationships that have nothing to do with sex. If you do care exclusively about sex, I recommend escorts or online hookups.
So, about 20% of college-aged women and 20% of college-aged men enjoy casual sex based on superficial characteristics. They tend to populate bars. Because you mentioned offering to buy women a drink I had, perhaps unfairly, assumed that was your target market.
If you are interested in relationships, those 20% are unlikely to provide them. I think online dating is a much better choice: I know several friends, including married friends, who met on OkCupid.
The problem I have observed is that nerds assume the problem is women. It's like if you're linking in a common library and it's failing to load: what's more likely, that there's a bug in the library that thousands of other people use or that you accidentally linked against the debug version?
Someday I'll get around to writing my "How to Hack Dating: an iterative approach to acquiring relationships" book. Lean Startup principles apply surprisingly well.
While saying such things is really ugly (I don't want to defend such women), maybe it could help you a little to think about the asymmetry in dating. Attractive women get approached all the time, a feeling most men probably can't begin to appreciate. If you are a programmer, compare it to the emails from recruiters you get all the time... There are certainly lots of such emails that I have taken to delete without reply now.
yes...but when you get a lot of rejections from recruiters dont you console yourself by saying/fantasizing that one day when you are truly successful you will ignore all recruiters and maybe get one or two out of a job...if you see all the threads on HN about recruiters people are easily biased against recruiters.
We are all human beings with weakly rational brains.Only thing wrong here is that it is not socially acceptable to be biased against women!
If you're having trouble of the sort of ratios you're talking about, you're doing something that alienates people. That doesn't have to be the end of things, because if you work at it eventually it'll change.
You can't change other people. Focus on the things you can affect, like finding ways to make yourself a more relaxed and relaxing person to talk to.
Some people are trying to give you feedback in other parts of this thread. Much of it is not constructive, but some is. But you seem to be focussed on reiterating your points rather than taking it on.
Work out how you can be more open to feedback. Find someone who will give you honest feedback. Distinguish between people who give good, direct feedback and people who get off by demeaning you.
I assume you created this account as a throwaway because you had an idea what you were saying would be controversial but this stuff is troubling you you and you wanted to talk about it. Good move. Now take the next step.
Brutally honest? You're projecting your own personal failings onto all women, and it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion whatsoever. What's more, it will haunt you if you don't deal with it now.
Go talk it out, either with a friend or a therapist. The longer you wait, the harder it will be.
>You're projecting your own personal failings onto all women, and it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.
I think like all other people you are missing my point.Please read my other responses on this thread.
But Yes I am certainly a failure so far by all conventional standards......but that does'nt mean I have the magical ability to get rid of all my biases....dealing with them is going to take time and in case of this particular bias ,perhaps a lot of positive experiences of interacting with women.
I either gravitate toward women who tend to respond to my advances negatively or have some behavior that puts women off. Therefore, I'm sexist and consider most if not all women inferior to men in ways including ability in math, engineering. Because I can't get them to sleep with me.
Umm no...but let me try to reword what I said in that language:
Although I absolutely agree that it is totally irrational to think of women as inferior in anything , my primate human brain cannot be convinced by reason alone to discard all its biases.Therefore I stand as an example of a young male nerd who as a result of his interactions with the opposite sex is developing negative biases towards them.
You realize that doesn't make it acceptable to harbor prejudices, right? The only reason you're not directly penalized for having them is that they're hard to screen for in job interviews... or were, before you gave the Google crawler trace evidence about one of yours.
a) Most people dont have any prejudices.
b) I care about the societal acceptability of my thoughts before thinking them
c) One's thoughts should be discarded if they can somehow be negatively viewed in job interviews
d) I cannot have my own business and therefore not need anyone to give me a job.