Hacker Newsnew | comments | show | ask | jobs | submit | shared4you's comments login

Thanks, cool tool ! A suggestion: Making the first column to have URL linking to the repo's homepage would be useful.

-----


Another one for Mac: [Multimarkdown Composer][1]. A friend of mine uses it and I think it worked well.

[1]: http://multimarkdown.com/

-----


Yet another alternative for Mac users: http://25.io/mou/

-----


Are your graphs up to date ? Seems just an hour ago [1]:

> Rust: build with --release. 10X performance boost!

That might mean that Rust would top the charts instead of Nim.

[1]: https://github.com/kanaka/mal/commit/434516e0d172904e06b05f6...

-----


Just one glance at the Rust version (e.g. [1]) shows a lot of needless allocation. For example:

    if *strn == "&".to_string() { ... }
is a very slow (and verbose) way to write

    if &strn[..] == "&" { ... }
and

    rr_string("'".to_string() + k.to_string() + "' not found".to_string())
is a very slow (and verbose) way to write

    rr_string(format!("'{}' not found", k))`
Etc. etc.

[1]: https://github.com/kanaka/mal/blob/master/rust/src/env.rs

-----


Thanks for the feedback.

That did seem rather inefficient at the time but I wasn't able to discern the more efficient method at the time. I've kind of been waiting for Rust 1 to cycle back around. But I'll see if I might be able to address some of those and bump to Rust 1.0 alpha in the next few days.

Note the conversation about performance is kind of unfortunate. Those numbers should be considered VERY rough (they were just a personal notes file of mine). Also, with --release, the numbers place rust in the same range as other compiled languages.

-----


pcwalton: thanks to Alex Crichton, the implementation has been cleaned up and updated to Rust 1.0.0 nightly. Yay! The feedback you noted has been applied to the code base. The performance has definitely improved some. Alex did some performance profiling and it looks like that hashmap performance may be the main bottleneck. The micro-benchmarks (and yes I admit they aren't good tests) don't really test strings, so it's probably the newer Rust version and the other cleanup that Alex did.

But if you want to take another pass through the code now that it's not based on an ancient Rust version, I'm always happy to take any advice from the master. :-)

-----


It's also using some manual clone instead of Cargo overrides, and manually running rather than `cargo run`... time for some PRs, I guess!

EDIT: further, looks like it's on a really old Rust: https://github.com/kanaka/rust-pcre wasn't updated since October...

EDIT 2: I tried to update the code, but it's really, really out of date, and will be a ton of work. So I've just submitted https://github.com/kanaka/mal/pull/23 instead. :(

-----


Well, I'm not going to remove it. But I will see if I can find some time to improve it in the next few days. I've been meaning to cycle back around. Of course, fixes from somebody who's actually a Rust expert would have been preferred :-)

The reason it still uses the alternate pcre is because this still hasn't been fixed: https://github.com/rust-lang/regex/issues/28 I would love to get rid of that nastiness.

-----


That's a bummer, because until then, you'll be strongly mis-representing Rust :/

-----


I hope that you are mis-representing Rust. I'd be pretty discouraged if I was learning a new language and one of the first interactions I had with a notable community member was a notice of take-down containing neither encouragement nor constructive criticism.

-----


I agree with you that this comment is quite harsh, but i'd like to point out that it's not a fair representation of steveklabnik's usual interaction with the community on reddit and IRC, as far as i can tell.

-----


Klabnik is a big voice in the Rust community. But regardless of how he might come across here; he is almost always positive and constructive when talking about the language.

For that matter: the constructive part was in the other post where he suggested some improvements. I can understand if the pull request is seen as aggressive, though.

-----


To be clear: I spent about half an hour working on updating things for head Rust. But when a language changes as much as Rust does, at some point, if you haven't kept up with it, it's basically impossible to update, it's simply easier to nuke it and start all over. This is why we have always recommended that people use the nightlies rather than the releases, because even upgrading per-point release is quite difficult. Not only that, since it's unclear which version of Rust this even compiles with, it's not as if I could install an old Rust and submit particular, concrete improvements for a Rust of that vintage. Starting over from scratch _is_ a concrete improvement, because it's the actual best path to moving forward in this particular case.

Have I mentioned how much I can't wait until 1.0.0 actually ships?

-----


I'm quite happy to take PRs from an expert to address the issues and represent Rust better. :-)

UPDATE: I will point out that the README is pretty clear that this is rust 0.13. Doesn't mean it's a good representation of rust 0.13 either of course, but it clearly isn't based on a recent version of Rust.

-----


Wait, you are being sarcastic, right? You know that you're replying to Steve Klabnik, who is on the Rust core team?

-----


Yes, it was intended to be somewhat in jest. "The expert" was a subtle (perhaps too subtle) acknowledgement of his role. Although, I am serious that if somebody with better Rust chops than I wants to fixup the code so that it represents Rust better, then I AM quite happy to pull those in and improve the implementation.

-----


[flagged]

> But you know, deep down, its still going to be relatively slow and massively verbose.

Why do you think it will be slow?

-----


Don't feed the troll. :) He obviously has an axe to grind and isn't looking to have a rational discussion. He even chose to take the good fight to Github, on Steve's pull request to the kanaka/mal repo.

-----


Yes, I updated it already.

-----


Is the lua implementation very new and/or incomplete? It seems to be missing from the benchmarks, and if it's lua 5.1, maybe it'll work with luajit?

[ed: Also interesting to note that the clojure version is much slower than scala/java. If nothing else, I guess it's an indication of performance gains that can be had by implementing parts of a clojure program in java (unless there's something off with the clojure implementation, of course.]

-----


I'm rather hesitant to post any sort of benchmarks (since the existing ones suck so bad), but the using these, the lua 5.1.5 equivalents would be: 1, 1, 293

Lua does seem to be an odd one in that the short tests run quickly but this does not translate into iterations for the longer 10 second test. Perhaps the mal implementation is triggering bad GC behavior or something and that drags down the longer running tests. That's just speculation though. Again, please take the numbers with a mountain size grain of salt.

-----


I have no idea, I didn't run the benchmarks. I only have a few of these languages on my system.

-----


It's weird that people that make benchmarks don't investigate which flags to pass for getting the most optimized build. Many compilers don't do max optimization by default. In particular, people making benchmarks with rust code seem to tend to forget or be unaware of the `release` flag.

-----


Yeah, this is happening again and again in Rust: people publish Rust benchmarks without optimization on. In fact, we just decided this week to change "Compiling" to "Compiling (Debug)" in Cargo if optimization isn't turned on to address this problem. It's sad :(

-----


If it helps it doesn't happen only to Rust but to all languages.

There is this misunderstanding between implementations and languages where people equate whatever they have installed on their computer with all implementations of the said language.

Also not knowing about profilers and optimization flags.

So yeah, it is sad.

-----


Yeah, the performance benchmarks currently suck. They are neither statistically valid, comprehensive, and often just run with default settings. That was really just a personal notes file that I shared with def- without clarifying that it really wasn't ready for publishing.

-----


That's probably because there is no --release flag:

    $ rustc --release prog.rs
    error: Unrecognized option: 'release'.
There is a -O for optimization, it is equivalent to -C opt-level=2.

EDIT: Oh, cargo build does have a --release which seems to be equivalent to -C opt-level=3, which I guess is even better.

-----


`cargo build --release` does more than just `-C opt-level=3`, actually. For example a regular `cargo build` also adds `-g`, and that's removed for `--release`.

-----


Maybe the release flag should be the default?

-----


My preference is to have unoptimized by default, unless there is only a negligible difference in compile-time between the two options. I mostly don't need optimized programs while I'm developing them.

Alternatively, don't have a default and let people opt-in to whatever default they like. That forces people to actually make a choice, instead of being lazy and publishing poor benchmarks without having even looked up what optimization knobs there are to turn on or off.

-----


Indeed it does, although not directly. From the RFC:

> TEXTDATA = %x20-21 / %x23-2B / %x2D-7E

So, it is a subset of ASCII whose hex codes must lie in the ranges given above. Basically, any printable ASCII character with the exception of 0x22 (= double quote) and 0x2C (=comma) which serve other purposes.

-----


From "3. MIME Type Registration of text/csv":

  Common usage of CSV is US-ASCII, but other character sets defined
  by IANA for the "text" tree may be used in conjunction with the
  "charset" parameter.
Basically, you can specify that it's UTF-8 or whatever via the Content-Type response header. Setting this response header isn't something an encoder could do. A CSV parsing library also shouldn't be responsible for loading the CSV file via HTTP. In most cases, CSV files aren't directly fetched via HTTP anyways.

Anyhow, ASCII is utter nonsense. We aren't living in an ASCII world. Even the Americans don't do that. An ASCII-only format is completely useless.

-----


Indeed, your format looks exactly like what Perl's CHANGES spec stipulate: https://metacpan.org/pod/distribution/CPAN-Changes/lib/CPAN/...

-----


Nitpick:

> The idea is to use zero-width and space characters of UTF-8 such as U+200B, U+200C, U+200D

That must be Unicode, not UTF-8.

-----


Fixed it, thanks!

-----


OP or mods: please add [2010] tag to the title.

-----


If adding the year to every post that's not "news" is to become a convention, it should be added to the guidelines. I doubt this is going to happen because, really, what difference does it make for an article like this?

-----


Old posts tend to contain outdated information, although I don't think that's the case here. The real issue is that almost every old post has already been discussed on HN previously, and posting it again just wastes time by restarting the discussion from scratch.

-----


On articles more than a year old, I find the year helps me know at a glance if a familiar sounding title is something I've read before or fresh content with the coincidentally familiar headline.

-----


getyearofpost() should never be used to measure timeliness

-----


Ha!

Indeed. I'll go back and update posts if they are no longer true.

/Author

-----


I'm getting an error message [1]:

"Sorry your session has expired. Kindly login again to continue."

even if I have just logged in. I cleared cookies, etc. but no use. And that error text is in white font over pink background -- hard to read without mouse-selecting.

[1]: https://imgur.com/7aAViSu

-----


ಕ್ರಿಸ್ಮಸ್ ಹಬ್ಬದ ಶುಭಾಷಯಗಳು ! With regards from India :)

-----


I had the exact same problem on an Ubuntu server at work. Since I don't have root access, I was forced to compile from source. I gave up when I couldn't compile Cabal.

My solution was Multimarkdown 4 [1]. It supports many basic Pandoc features I need (tables, etc.). Exports to HTML and PDF. Since it is written in C, the compilation was straight forward. 10 minutes later, my document is ready. Couldn't have been happier.

[1]: https://github.com/fletcher/MultiMarkdown-4

-----

More

Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | DMCA | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: