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Company still has a significant amount of cash left in the bank that they're returning to investors. Someone below quoted 25m? I wouldn't be surprised if it was even higher.

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I think the other commenters are way too harsh on you. While I don't think you really need to apologize in this case, its a classy move regardless.

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brianchu 530 days ago | link

Right. Apologizing is not strictly necessary. But relationships matter; in the long run someone who is able to apologize and keep calm despite others' rude statements is going to be better off.

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My personal opinion and standard for customer service (to my customers) is that no matter how rude the customer is (in this case, I personally wouldn't classify Ryan as rude), its my responsibility to be as polite and helpful as humanly possible. Perhaps I just have extra high standards, but for me, the email from Allan reflects pretty bad on Curebit's leadership team.

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The actual scan technology is very specific and hard if not impossible (with current tech) to implement on things like a photocopied card. A real card needs to be used.

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Informative post. Congrats Keen team!

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dkador 667 days ago | link

Thanks! Super exciting day for us. :)

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Agreed. One of the best comments I've seen on HN yet.

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javajosh 708 days ago | link

Thanks! Felt good to write it.

One concern that I have is that the Miso CEO (and people like him) will take away the wrong lesson, along the lines of "be careful what you say to employees in email". But the real lesson is that you should keep your promises, and if you have a moment of weakness and try to reneg on a promise, don't be proud: admit the mistake and keep the promise. People make mistakes, even twenty-something CEOs of tech startups (shocking, I know).

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rogerjin 708 days ago | link

I 100% agree with your concern, and that is the problem for it extends beyond tech startups to anyone in the world who have this mindset (of which there are many -- the ruthlessly, amorally, ambitious.)

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Hey Eric, your site is awesome. I love how easy it is to play music. I had some thoughts from a UX perspective of things I didn't like about it.

Dislike: There’s no sign up, only a Login with Facebook button (which is annoying personally because I don’t like logging in with Facebook http://screencast.com/t/hsKqMkyuR.)

There’s a bunch of white space to the right hand side of the page (http://screencast.com/t/2swhK5EPb2i), which makes the page unsymmetrical and doesn’t feel right.

I don’t like how most of the things on the page don’t have any description beyond an icon. I know most frequent internet users can probably figure it out, but it still requires me to think for a second to make the associations (http://screencast.com/t/6E2ydk3kh) and some older users and perhaps not as savvy internet users may not understand it at all (albeit the site might not be aimed towards them.)

I know this site is for people who like Essential Mixes, but I have no idea what a collection, Essential Mix collection or FACT collection is. Adding a description could add an unnecessary element while removing a confusing aspect, so its up to you to make the choice. I think a description can be made (without hurting user experience) by adding a disposable box next to the collections briefly explaining what they are.

Some specific aspects of the design I don't like (misalignment, pixels off center, etc.): http://screencast.com/t/1Tg9Fo75xo3

Hope you don't take my thoughts negatively, just trying to help. Overall I like the site, its is simple and has no truly unnecessary elements, that’s good. Also, I like this touch http://screencast.com/t/oWFv5kkU2), adds to the user experience. And I like how easy it is to play songs (just click and it starts playing http://screencast.com/t/MwkkU8musZ).

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The product looks great. I'm personally curious about their product roadmap with regards to where they plan to expand on beyond video meetings in the long run. Good luck guys!

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I can't believe more people haven't stated this, but honestly stealing his idea is an UBER dick move. I can't believe you're even considering this, wow. There's plenty of ideas out there, you don't need to be lazy AND immoral to steal this guy's idea, especially since he trusted the two of you to discuss ideas in good faith. ESPECIALLY since you guys supposedly regularly meet up just to discuss ideas. I would seriously recommend you listen to your conscience and don't do it. It's really a dick move.

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MrBurns 738 days ago | link

Thanks for your feedback rogerjin. I respect your point of view and agree that it's somewhat immoral, but given that I strongly believe that the person won't realize the project wouldn't it be dumb to reject a great venture purely on moral grounds? And as some people suggested ideas are out there and other people are probably working on a similar project as we speak. In the end if someone else succeeds with this idea wouldn't that person be stealing the idea as well?

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rogerjin 738 days ago | link

"In the end if someone else succeeds with this idea wouldn't that person be stealing the idea as well?"

>> There's an unbelievably huge difference between someone (a complete stranger) realizing this idea by themselves and running with it, versus your friend disclosing his idea/features/strategy to you in good faith and you running with it. MrBurns, there are some things in life more important than money and success, such as not screwing over someone in this way. Shows a complete lack of character. At the risk of sounding condescending, didn't your parents teach you better?

Its not just somewhat immoral, its completely immoral. As my friend who send this thread to me said, "Its one thing to compete with an idea. It's another when someone divulge massive details about everything regarding the idea, and you just come in and try to fuck them over." And yes, while execution is more important than the idea, considering the information was divulged in good faith and you're now just taking the chance to screw him over when he's down, my friend likens your justification to "saying murder is OK because stupid people are making the world dumb." Think about it. It's not OK.

If you really believe this will be a great venture, you should help this guy rather then screw him. And if you really want in on the venture, you should have a serious talk to this person about joining together if you truly realize how bad what you were proposing was, and WITHOUT any ulterior motives. Yes, while he might be too blinded by his passion to make any changes, but you never know until you try.

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MrBurns 737 days ago | link

I can see that you're getting pretty passionate about this thread rogerjin and I repect that! I actually started this post to get the most honest feedback I could get and I want to thank you for it. Having said that, here's a purely hypothetical question. Up to what point can you say that it's okay to steal and idea? Say we hypothetically give this guy three years to launch his pet project. Three years later we meet him again and it's still not launched. Can we say that if he didn't develop it in three years then it's up for grabs? That he got his chance and the next guy should seize his opportunity? The reason why I'm saying this is because contrary to you, I believe that the line between what is moral and what is immoral is not always as clear as you suggest it is.

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dnlhoust 737 days ago | link

not to answer for roger, but in my eyes: You're right. Being immoral isn't black and white, in this case it's a line drawn in relation to your relationship to the friend you're considering stealing from. Now it's clear he obviously holds some value in the friendship since he's willing to fully disclose his ideas to you, ideas which he likely plans to do work on. By stealing his ideas you're not only robbing him of something he cares about and a potential income/customer base etc, but you're also betraying that friendship.

Your example of waiting 3 years is a valid one, the reason why the morality changes is because after 3 years he likely will care less about the idea (I mean he didn't do anything with it for 3 years, right?) because it's become apparent he doesn't care much about it, the robbing and betrayal have less of an impact, to the point where it's so much less of a deal that it's just overwritten by you friendship

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Reluctant to comment, since this is circumstantial and may be seen as not adding to the discussion, but for what its worth, I've heard (long before this incident) many cases in which Dan Porter has exhibited this type of behavior (immoral actions), and that this headline in itself is not an isolated incident.

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