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It's a shame that they don't have Java support. Although rethinkdb was a better fit, lack of official Java driver is what prompted the company I work for to go with another doc db. I could see they are working on it, but it is too late for us unfortunatley.

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I was looking for something like this (esp to store and server images) for our new application. Looks interesting, thanks for the work.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0 series is a good watch and will give you an idea why they "made" it complex.

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You are just proving what OP says "the .NET community is filled with closed-minded folks that will never admit that their tooling sucks". Unfortunately, you are not seeing the whole picture.

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What ? I developed web applications with Clojure/CLJS Python/Django, I did C++ development for years and a large part of the code in my current project is in Python because the tool we use (Blender) uses Python as a scripting language.

I agree that .NET has less opensource tools because a lot of things are just provided by Microsoft out of the box, and there are many areas it's not popular - but there are many OSS projects and they match the things I saw in Python and Clojure community.

I would say his posts proves another point - a lot of people in open-source are unfriendly to .NET because of Microsoft origin and they like to spread FUD. I remember when Mono was getting started and every thread on every news board would bring up how it's "patented/copyrighted" even when Microsoft gave .NET community patent promise and made CLI a standard.

When I contributed patches to Mono and talking to other .NET developers on social networks I never saw this "unfriendliness towards OSS".

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>there are many OSS projects and they match the things I saw in Python and Clojure community.

Where's the Django for .NET?

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ASP.NET MVC ?

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Does the same sort of thing, but is not nearly as good.

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Seems to work just fine for StackOverflow... Then again, maybe 560M pageviews per month on 9 web servers isn't nearly enough for your high-level app requirements. They've stayed with ASP.NET MVC since at least v3 back in 2008. Current [1]:

    - IDE Visual Studio 2012 & 2013
    - Framework Microsoft ASP.NET (version 4.0) on .NET 4.5
    - Web Framework ASP.NET MVC 5 with MiniProfiler
    - View Engine Razor 3
    - Browser Framework jQuery 1.7.1
    - Data Access Layer LINQ to SQL and Dapper
    - Cache / Additional Data redis 2.8.4 via StackExchange.Redis, with serialization via protobuf-net
    - Source Control Git using a self-hosted GitLab instance (previously Mercurial from 2010–2014, Subversion from 2008–2010)
    - Compare Tool Beyond Compare 3
Disqus on the other hand (originally based on python/Django) sounds like they've rewritten a lot of their core components into Go. [3] At the end of the day any solid web framework will still need caching thrown in front of it along with high levels of custom tailoring. Both Disqus and SO have done that. Either way the .NET stack has long since proven itself as a capable foundation.

[1] http://meta.stackexchange.com/a/10370

[2] http://stackexchange.com/performance

[3] http://highscalability.com/blog/2014/5/7/update-on-disqus-it...

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@crdoconnor suave.io, Websharper are some interesting open source projects that are similar to django.

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I was referring to its terseness, simplicity, extensibility and the large ecosystem surrounding it.

I said that Django is a better framework for this reason, not your straw man reason.

Scalability is barely an issue. You can horizontally scale both frameworks virtually endlessly if you maintain application statelessness. Dick measuring contests about which company uses what and has the most pageviews do not contribute much to the discussion. Are you going to argue that PHP is a good language because Facebook has a billion users?

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I was referring to its terseness, simplicity, extensibility and the large ecosystem surrounding it. I said that Django is a better framework for this reason, not your straw man reason.

You're going to have to link me to the comment where you "referred to" and "said" all of that, because this was all I saw:

Where's the Django for .NET? and Does the same sort of thing, but is not nearly as good.

So maybe I got foolishly got myself into this by bothering to respond to two zero-effort comments. It wasn't a dick measuring contest, the point of the exercise was to examine that a .NET stack (including ASP.NET MVC at its core) can be executed upon with finesse and tuned to efficiency at high operational capacity. Futhermore, other frameworks (i.e. Django) aren't short of their own troubles.

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I couldn't agree more. My experience exactly.

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The above concerns would never bother (coz they are not aware) average population , which is more than 95% I guess. Rest is something Fipkart may be willing to trade off.

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I guess it will be damn interesting to see how this pans out for Flipkart. FWIS, Flipkart is very unhappy that it wasn't allowed to control (yes control!) the market over web with its Airtel Zero plans. Read more about Net Neutrality [1] events in India lately.

Amazon India is certainly a serious threat to them. On a closed platform (like that of Android which is major in India) they probably have a lot more control and tracking (as someone mentioned it above). I guess it would make a lot of sense for FK to tap the naivete of Indian market and pull them all away from the web.

It's all politics written all over it!

[1] http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/13/flipkart-airtelzero/

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I've been using Java for almost 6 years mainly with IntelliJ and I've heard many times that C# is better than Java. Recently I've got chance to work with C# (on Visual Studio 2012 with Resharper). Oh boy, I don't know how to express my feeling, but in one sentence "It's just suck to the core".

I completely agree, as a language C# is more rounded, but as far as the ecosystem and tooling concerned its literally nowhere near to Java.

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That's funny to me because my experience was the exact opposite. After an undergrad experience of Java, C, C++, Python (at least from the OO/C-likes) on *nix systems, trying C# 5 w/ VS2010 + ReSharper was some kind of transcendent experience.

I LOVE the language and I've found the entire ecosystem fine. There are some corner cases for some more advanced systems level stuff, but I've yet to be unable to do something I needed to.

Java feels like a clunky dinosaur to me now. But hey, different strokes for different folks.

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I have a similar background and my experience was the same.

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It's interesting that you view things that way, because my opinion is basically flipped. Eclipse is an absolute displeasure to work with (the default IDE for most Java programmers), and don't even get me started on AbstractFactoryFactories and Beans, insane unreadable stack traces, the 1970s look of Swing GUI, JAR hell (classpath issues), Maven not working in offline mode, Applets and their manifest files and signing issues, etc.

Maybe I've just worked with too much enterprise-y Java code which always tends to be a cluster. Anytime the acronyms "SOA" or "ESB" enter the mix I start fearing for my sanity. But even Android programming seems to have more quirks than WinPhone development, although I'm comparing my experience w/ ICS 4.0 to WP 8.1 here.

What annoyed you about C#? I'm curious where you think the ecosystem or tooling is better than C#.

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As I mentioned, I was using IntelliJ mostly and I'm aware of those warts with Eclipse as well.

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> "It's just suck to the core"

You are not helping anyone out here. Why does C# suck for you?

I find the tooling for C# projects using VS as a very nice feature set. Look at what VS supports today. Grunt, npm and bower are supported by VS out of the box. Also, nuget package manager has saved me many DLL hell problems that could have occurred without it. VS also supports many third-party extensions and tooling, which is what makes me thinks it is one of the best IDEs out there.

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I'm disappointed by your comment because you didn't provide any details on how "It just suck to the core". Guess you only wanted to trash-talk C#?

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May be its just me. But since you asked:

1. On the same machine, I find VS 2012 was dragging (but memory was always hovering around 400MB)

2. Couldn't stand for .csproj style solution files (may be I'm spoiled by pom.xml, but its way better)

3. We as a team working on the same project and merging those .csproj files are literally pain in the ass.

4. The windows layout in the IDE is quite un-intuitive. You should see how IntelliJ manages all those windows.

5. The disconnected namespace and folder structure is another pain.

6. Related to the point 5, looking the source code and namespace imports, I can't see from which file those Classes are being "imported".

7. Maintaining and adding references is PITA compared to Java projects that uses maven.

Again, as I clearly mentioned, C# as language is better, but the tooling and ecosystem are not.

Its not always about the better language, Software is mostly written once, but read, refactored, maintained thousands of times by dozens of people. So the tooling and ecosystem has its place, so as the backward compatibility.

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1. Resharper can sometimes really slow things down. Turning off Solution Analysis will often help with that. Also, I seem to have much better performance with VS 2013.

3. Did you try adding "*.csproj merge=union" to the gitattributes? I have never had a csproj merge conflict since adding that.

4. That really comes down to a preference. For me I feel the IntelliJ style keymap is better, but I would take the window layout of VS over WebStorm (just naming one i use often) any day of the week.

5. If your team decided to not have namespaces match the folder structure, thats their prerogative.

6. "Go to Declaration"?

7. NuGet has solved this problem for me.

But you're right, the C# ecosystem is certainly not perfect. Most people seem to agree that msbuild is frustrating to work with. And I really really wish csproj had wildcard support for including files.

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csproj's do have wildcard support, just no way to create them through the IDE: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms164283.aspx

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Thanks for the pointers.

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> literally pain in the ass

this is an interesting claim

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Yes, it is!

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Regarding a couple of your points: Point 1. You might want to take a look and see if Resharper is to blame. I ultimately got rid of Resharper. I found that most of the features I used were already in Visual Studio (e.g. ctrl + , instead of ctrl + t) and keeping Resharper with VsVim was more trouble than it was worth. Point 3. We use TF, which I am not a fan of, but it automatically resolves the conflicts when we check in our .csproj files. The bigger issue we had (and still have) is getting people to check in the .csproj files and doing it correctly.

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I understand what you wrote about csproj (no 2 and 3). Maybe this is why asp mvc next gen use new project file format

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Just like all other comments ... total opposite for me. I love visual studio. I did some android development few months ago, I tried eclipse and Intellij and I missed VS2012 badly.

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I've been doing Java development for over a decade and have dabbled in the C#/.NET ecosystem a handful of times. My knee-jerk reaction is always sort of similar (and I write posts about stuff I miss [1] about what I miss), but I don't actually think it sucks at all - it is mostly just about getting used to a new environment.

I'd fully expect someone coming from a .NET ecosystem to have a similar reaction, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle: both of them have their things they excel at and things they are less good at, but a lot of it comes down to what you are used to.

Even though my gut reaction is sometimes similar to yours, I'd jump at the chance to do C# full-time, because I think there is some really nice stuff in the language and the platform seems really interesting once you get past the parts that feel unfamiliar.

[1] http://www.spenceruresk.com/2011/01/visual-studio-2010-a-bun...

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http://vivian.balakrishnan.sg/2015/03/13/Open-Source/ Interesting..

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Difficult to take seriously with so many gratuitous hashtags that aren't actually links to anything.

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It seems that whoever was in charge of updating his blog (which is hosted on GitHub Pages [1]) forgot to remove the hashtags from his Facebook Page post [2].

[1] https://github.com/VivianBalakrishnan/VivianBalakrishnan.git...

[2] https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152609593346207....

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Agree, its buried. http://blog.elementary.io/post/116134677986/freya-is-here in case if interested.

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"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses" - Stroustrup

Its kinda make sense in this context.

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