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Yeah for instance when Apple did this design a few years ago it was mostly unacceptable among Fandroids and HN crowd. Now its good, because its Android. Its no secret that HN is heavily biased against Apple (and to some extent MS). I don't know, must be all the Google employees here or something. Its always interesting to watch how these conversations turn out. Its been getting a lot more noticeable over the years on here.

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Yeah for instance when Apple did this design a few years ago it was mostly unacceptable among Fandroids and HN crowd. Now its good, because its Android.

Or the people who disliked it when it Apple did it are a different group of people that like it when an Android phone does it. Or they see it as an acceptable trade-off given the non-subsidized price of the Nexus 4.

But hey, don't let that stop you from pointing out such a grave injustice.

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> HN is heavily biased against Apple

This is absurd. HN is not a monolith. Every time Apple has a new product there's plenty of people fawning over it, plenty deriding it, and most people somewhere in between who don't care enough to comment.

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According to The Verge, it was a choice between faster data on the one hand, and timely updates, better battery life, and lower price on the other.

I'm guessing for a lot of the Nexus's target market, and for Google, faster updates win out.

http://mobile.theverge.com/2012/10/29/3569688/why-nexus-4-do...

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I'm just surprised they're alienating so much of the U.S. market. People here were writing off the Galaxy Nexus because of the missing SD card slot alone. Take away LTE and the removable battery and this thing has absolutely zero chance of being successful in the U.S.

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I'm not so sure that people in the US are "writing off the Galaxy Nexus". Especially when combined with a prepaid plan (such as Straight Talk, Simple Mobile, or TMobile Monthly4G), this phone is a really good deal. $300 is similar to the starting prices for some phone ON contract.

A lot of people really don't need the extra space from an SD card, and LTE is just a more costly option with slightly higher speeds. The lack of a removable battery is somewhat of a let down, but be honest, when is the last time you replaced your phone's battery? I never have. People also seem to indicate that you can still replace the battery by removing a few screws, it is just a little more difficult.

I think the US market is moving towards prepaid, non-contract plans, and this is the PERFECT phone for it. On top of that, most of the rest of the world uses prepaid phone plans, which this is perfect for.

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Absolutely, I get why they did it, and its a nice device (if a bit big for me). However I feel its more about getting it into as many markets as possible as well.

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Please compare the price of an unlocked iPhone to the price of this unlocked, powerful phone. If you have more money you can go with the S3 or any of the other Android phones with all the features that are missing in the N4. The power of choice...

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"Fandroids" - really? sigh...

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No its more like people being interested in the application, finding value in it and actually wanting to buy it. When I got my Nexus 7 it came with £15 free content on the play store and I couldn't even spend it all because there was so little quality applications available.

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I got my ipad mini on an impulse buy (actually was after I went to Apple's website to see the apology thing) and looking over the design and spec's and went to my local Tesco's to pick one up. Its a really impressive device, way lighter feeling than my busted Nexus 7 and with a nicer balanced screen. Its really tough feeling as well. Not to mention fast, its just snappier feeling and im getting 12+ hours battery from it as well. Great all round device.

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> (actually was after I went to Apple's website to see the apology thing)

This is a fascinating example of "no such thing as bad publicity" :-)

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Well, I consider myself a 'normal' consumer and I was waiting for an ipad mini and I think you consider that a proof (of sorts). I don't think its much of a leap in logic to work out that a lot (hundreds of thousands...millions even) were waiting off for something like a smaller ipad. I mean it was in practically every technology blog prior to announcement.

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Do 'normal' consumers even read technology blogs? And most certainly somebody posting on HN does not qualify as a 'normal consumer' when it comes to technology purchases.

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It wasn't even technology blogs per say, they were talking about it in the Guardian and BBC online. It was rumor for months and spreading by word of mouth. My granny was talking about getting one before it was actually released and she doesn't have a clue what a blog is, she found out from friends at the bowls. True story :)

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I have always wondered what the probability of hitting a near-c object/dust particle/micrometeorite is between solar systems is within the galaxy. No doubt a near-c object (of any size) would end up trashing a spaceship, but whats the chances of it actually happening? Is it significant?

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Looks like your opinion is not welcome on HN anymore. Unless we are bashing Apple and praising Android its not going to get anywhere in afraid. I completely agree with you on all those points, for instance if it was an Apple device it would be 'featured' on HN every day for weeks ripe for the trashing. Its an uninspired device with little to offer, built down to a price to undercut to competition.

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Google and amazon have started a race to the bottom and no one will win that way. It has to be profitable for all concerned otherwise there is no point.

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Consumers win. If competitors can't differentiate on anything other than price, why do they deserve to exist?

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I didn't when I got a cheap device that was faulty and fell apart more than once. I have since decided it is a false economy. 159 quid plastic tablet vs 259 quid aluminium one is what it comes down to for me. The extra 100 quid gives me as the consumer a much more pleasurable device that's much more durable and lasts longer. It pays for itself because I can actually use it before it breaks. That's just my experience so far.

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Last time that I decided to shell out more money investing in the "aluminium factory" I bought an mp3 player and found out rather quickly that they break as any other cheap player.

I also found out that the sustainable model of the "aluminium factory" is to make me pay almost the same price of a new player to replace a shattered display.

In the end I was lucky enough to find on ebay some companies madly working against the sustainability of the free market that sold me a replacement display for 20£.

I ever since bought only cheap, plastic players. They still even let you change batteries...

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And some of is can actually use the plastic ones. To each their own.

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Google and Amazon don't make money from hardware/software. And if Android OEM's refuse to lower prices then Google can still continue with Motorola. Android OEM's who are just in the game for hardware are in danger.

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Amazon sells content at relatively high margin. Google has a new content store they want to push. The profit from selling the hardware is only part of a consumer's financial relationship with these companies. I'd be far more worried for Samsung/Asus, which are entirely hardware based.

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I went to the page to see what all the bother was about and ended up buying an iPad mini (to replace nexus 7). Thanks Samsung. You can't pay for this publicity.

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The UK legal system is a complete joke. Apple should consider using its considerable resources to take legal action with this demand and simply post " X is not as cool as Y" and leave it at that. I can not fathom why this has been pulled up, and would challenge the appeals court to explain why the original passage is non-compliant and if they cant give a reasonable answer I would be meeting them in court.

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In this case the UK legal system is pretty much exactly like any other civilized legal system.

The judge in this case is the court, and when he says the original passage doesn't comply with his order, by definition it does not comply with his order. If they choose to continue to fail to comply with this order, the people responsible finds themselves at risk of being found in contempt of court and jailed.

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So a single person can perhaps issue an order and not be overruled or challenged in any way?

That hardly seems like a "civilized" legal system. In fact it sounds like something in a corrupt banana republic.

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It can be challenged by appealing the finding. This is already in the appeals court - good luck to Apple's lawyers in getting the UK Supreme Court to overrule a court order about a small statement on their website.

But what metratonscube suggested was to ignore the court order and put up a message that is blatantly in violation of the order then fight them in court if they didn't come up with a reason to comply. Ignoring this court order would be straightforward contempt of court at this stage, and will result in substantially more severe sanctions than being told to put a modified message up.

And yes, this is how a civilized legal system handles it - every single European country, the US and most other countries in the world gives the judges (in this case a panel in the appeals court, so not just one) wide latitude in ensuring compliance with their orders. The failure to comply with a judge's legally issued order without specifically going to the court and asking for a stay pending an appal, is considered extremely serious exactly because the rule of law requires someone to be the arbiter, and if one party was able to get away with just ignoring what the judge orders them to, then the court has no ability to carry out it's duties.

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Err, this is true in almost all "civilized" legal systems.

Judges everywhere are always responsible for determining if you are compliant with their orders, and holding you accountable if not.

Not everything is appealable.

In every justice system, there is always someone who is "always right because they are last", not "last because they are always right".

For example, in the US, the supreme court judges also act as the highest individual judge in a given circuit court. This usually comes into play with stays of death penalty cases. The judges usually refer the petition to the full court, and the full court takes a vote. However, this is not required. The judge could simply deny/accept it. You would have no way to appeal this.

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In this case, the original judge wanted the notice on Apple's UK home page. Apple did appeal that judgement, and the appeals court said it would be sufficient to put it in a link from the footer. So there is recourse.

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In the US, such orders usually have to be in writing, be pretty specific, and the meaning has to be fairly clear. You would have a very difficult time holding someone in contempt for a court order that's not written. And, so, what's written IS the order, regardless of the judge's intent.

In other words, a third party judge should be able to judge compliance with the order, so it certainly would not be the case that if the original judge thinks something doesn't comply with his order that it necessarily doesn't comply.

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The court order is in writing, and it includes a proposed text of the statement. Apple changed it. This is what the court wrote:

"Finally I should say something about the notice itself. We heard no discussion about that. Plainly Judge Birss's Schedule has been overtaken by events. Subject to anything that may be submitted by either side I would propose the following:

On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronic (UK) Limited's Galaxy Tablet Computers, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple's registered design No. 0000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High court is available on the following link [link given].

That Judgment has effect throughout the European Union and was upheld by the Court of Appeal on ….. A copy of the Court of Appeal's judgment is available on the following link […]. There is no injunction in respect of the registered design in force anywhere in Europe.

In the result I would dismiss both appeals but vary the publicity order as indicated or in such other way as may be agreed or settled by further argument. I would hope that any such argument (and any other consequential) arguments can be resolved by written submissions.:"

If Apple thinks that "I would propose the following" means they're free to change the text as they please, they better fire their lawyer, especially given the preceding "Subject to anything that may be submitted by either side".

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Apple already is meeting them in court. Apple lost.

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fighting an institution that makes the law probably isn't the best of ideas

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They're not (they're fighting the institution charged with penalizing), and it happens all the time.

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The parent was seemingly promoting the idea of Apple personally suing the judge because they don't like his ruling. If this was possible most legal systems would crumble.

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Does that include the replacements and repairs, because I have had a 'new' nexus 4 times now.

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My friend had his Nexus 7 in his pocket (as he always had done) and just the process of sitting on the couch caused enough pressure to destroy the screen.

Google / ASUS provided no support and he just went and bought a whole new device (he was told the price of repair was basically the same as replacement).

Unlike most of the devices I've seen when the screen was cracked (really just a hairline crack across the face), it became completely unusable.

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Yeah I have had that experience about 4 times now, like you said, when cracked its completely useless. I broke the first one by sitting the device on the top of a stack of books and research material and then proceeding to pick that bundle up. My thumb holding the nexus 7 and that was enough to put a split from corner to corner. I have given up on the device and Android. I went back to using my old ipad 1 which has been dropped and thrown about for 2-3 years now and not even a scratch or buff on the back and certainly no cracks or chips on the screen. I made the mistake of getting a nexus 7 for my brother and both parents and they have ALL had problems with it (each was about £209 in the UK). They are all getting ipads now.

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My guess is that replacements are new devices (which replace your old device), while repairs are not new devices , but instead your original device, repaired.

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