This is not the claim. The claim is that, empirically, many (or enough) of the women who end up in porn are underage, trafficked, or psychologically coerced (due to poverty, drug addiction, abuse, etc) such that the choice is not really the free choice of willing participant.
I am all for individual freedoms, but I've read enough about this issue, and seen enough documentaries, that I think the claim is very well-founded. Of course, some porn stars are just willing adults doing something they want to do, but there are many who are not.
> of the women who end up in porn are underage, trafficked, or psychologically coerced (due to poverty, drug addiction, abuse, etc) such that the choice is not really the free choice of willing participant.
People who believe that are not aware how the industry has changed and the standards attached to that.
Additionally, that wasn't the draw of the industry. Using the "porn/stripping" preys on the poor is a far over simplification and a weasly thing to say.
> People who believe that are not aware how the industry has changed and the standards attached to that.
This very much depends on where you look at. If you are only consuming Made in California™ porn from the big producers, then yes, a lot may have changed.
If you are searching out the raw shit from Russia/Eastern Europea/Asia, then no, the industry is still heavy on the abuse and intertwined with organised crime.
Having legalized and accessible adult content hurts the scope and desire for "the raw shit". Organized crime created the problem, not the production/consumption of adult content. They're unethical, unlawful, immoral opportunists.
but you can apply this argument to almost any product or good on the market and get a similar ratio of 'willing participant' and 'pseudo-slavery' involvement. Across the board.
in other words I wouldn't ban oranges because some of the farmers have been found to have been enslaved; instead i'd investigate and penalize the enslavement and crimes taking place.
Similarly : I wouldn't ban pornography on some false pretense that it's to save someone, because quite honestly if I began that boulder rolling it shouldn't stop , every industry victimizes someone; it's a question of stopping and penalizing abuses and preventing victimization, not about regulating broad industries ( a move that worsens human rights violations by moving them into a highly lucrative black market, into the shadows ) .
I'd be willing to bet that there are far more people who voluntarily make porn than people who voluntarily work on cocoa farms in Western Africa. Not that the existence of other industries where slavery and abuse are more prevalent make those problems in the porn industry any better, but at the very least a lot of work has been done to limit the amount of abuse in the adult entertainment industry and there are a lot of places where people who are being abused can find help and support, especially here in the US. You're more likely to be supporting slavery and abuse buying a Hershey's Bar or an iphone than by watching a video on pornhub.
This is perhaps the clearest example of whataboutism I have ever seen. Sure, the porn industry is nasty, but have you seen the chocolate industry? Let's talk about that instead!
In this case it’s not because this subthread is specifically about comparing abuse levels in other industries and further whether the product should be banned or the abusive practice should be investigated and eliminated.
How about phone battery manufacturing? Shall we do an accounting of abuses there? Phones warp minds, and have extensive slavery overseas in the supply chain. Societies love to claim the moral high ground by externalizing bad behavior, and importing the result. The US does this extensively with climate and labor laws, and Europe does it with pesticides. The difference with porn is its pretty girls, and its all on camera. I see some parallels with Missing White Woman Syndrome.
> it's not like other industries. The amount of well-documented abuse is much higher. Degree matters.
It's certainly not that different in degree to the agricultural industry (undocumented workers packed into squalid working conditions, long hours in harsh climate, wage theft, constant threat of ICE...), and we're not out here trying to ban tomatoes
You can honestly acknowledge what both industries do without "being out there trying to ban them." In any case, plenty of people want to improve working conditions in the agricultural industry. Probably the best you can do in both cases is imperfect regulation which at least tries to change incentives for the worst kind of abuse.
Right, but I'm specifically pointing out here the difference in knee-jerk response (particularly in the political arena). Rampant worker abuses in porn leads to attempts to ban it entirely, while similar abuses in the agriculture sector engender a very lukewarm response
There is some of the bean to bar variety. Very different price class, though.
I'd also guess (not know, haven't researched that area at all) that some of the fair trade and similar certified labels you can find even in supermarkets have a good enough control for that.
Let’s replace a few categories of your argument and see how your logic holds up.
”This is not the claim. The claim is that, empirically, many (or enough) of the men who end up in construction jobs are underage, trafficked, or psychologically coerced (due to poverty, drug addiction, abuse, etc) such that the choice is not really the free choice of willing participant.
I am all for individual freedoms, but I've read enough about this issue, and seen enough documentaries, that I think the claim is very well-founded. Of course, some construction workers are just willing adults doing something they want to do, but there are many who are not.
You could replace construction with mining or fishing or factory work. It’s pretty clear to me that outlawing fishing jobs isn’t going to solve the problem of forced labor.
> The claim is that, empirically, many (or enough) of the women who end up in porn are underage, trafficked, or psychologically coerced (due to poverty, drug addiction, abuse, etc) such that the choice is not really the free choice of willing participant.
The main point of contention becomes what "enough" constitutes. Almost no women in commercial porn is underage as all countries that legally allow its production also require strict proof of age for the people actually having sex.
Admittedly hot take, but I think the existence of ubiquitous porn on-demand does take away power from people who would withhold sex as part of a negotiation in a relationship.
In the context of the talk, its about the message of "Don't Panic" because in reality none of this is nearly as bad as some people are making it out to be
I think the top-level comment is slightly missing the point of what GKH is saying: it's not 'it only took an hour to fix', it's "this amount of bugs is about what the kernel community finds and fixes each hour". i.e. this splashy announcement is really just a drop in the ocean of the volume that the kernel is handling.
> I don't understand the relevance of time to fix. It has no correlation with severity.
That they're small bugs that don't involve any serious architecture changes (or architecture sleuthing), just small pattern recognition. LLMs are pretty good (maybe great) at that. Finding 10 bugs is nice. Now find 10 more.
I've never heard it referred to as "The Outsider" before. TIL it has been published under that name, but "The Stranger" is the title it's typically known as in English:
Yeah the French word could also be translated as "the foreigner." It's an interesting demonstration of the challenge of translation; even a one-word title presents an ambiguity that has to be resolved.
GP is correct. Very few people were capable of even the informal analysis you are describing, and fewer did it. I'm not saying it's not valuable... just stating that, empirically, it rarely happened.
And layer8 is saying (two responses upwards by them) that this is a novel benefit of AI: it can do a particularly thorough and repetitive kind of fault analysis that is a real PITA for humans to do (by their nature, versus the nature of computers).
The famine is unrelated to the land distribution but also the farm land distribution didn't last. They changed course and put the land into collectives and it is still in collectives today so the famine cannot be blamed on collectives.
My understanding is the famine was essentially the middle managers of these collectives over stating yields and being too afraid to admit their lies. To maintain the lie, they shipped off food while the farmers starved.
> They changed course and put the land into collectives and it is still in collectives today so the famine cannot be blamed on collectives.
Painting it as if Mao era collectives are the same as the state quotas that exist today is highly misleading. The HRS was 1979:
"The household responsibility system replaced collective farming." [1]
Broadly speaking, the collectives can and should be blamed for the famine, just as in the Ukraine. Getting into the weeds on the specific mechanisms is fine, but using it to undermine the broader lesson is apologetics.
Famine along the yellow river and yangtze river has been happening for thousands of years across all dynasties, its specifically what land distribution was meant to fix, and since 1960s there hasn't been a famine since. My parents and grandparents lived through it and left cities to work in countryside fields during the cultural revolution. You tell me how the famine fits in and I'll let you know if you're accurate or not.
I think not. Your framing thus far is so wildly inaccurate that I believe this is a propaganda account, and hesitate to engage further. But in case any not familiar with the history read this in passing, I will leave a reference to an actually reputable source:
"Mao’s violent collectivization and forced labour campaigns during China’s Great Leap Forward (1958–1962) led to as many as 45 million deaths in what is widely regarded as the worst famine in human history." [1]
We need a term for the dark pattern of zooming into just that part of the y-axis where the two closely competing benchmarks sit, to make the top one appear maximally better.
Spinning the present situation or the history of nuclear arms as a high-five, "go team human!" success story is... quite the take (Vasili Arkhipov, Cuban missile crisis generally, the current doomsday clock being "the closest the Clock has ever been to midnight in its history").
> You don't have help. But perhaps you could at least avoid discouraging people unnecessarily?
More germanely, you don't have to worry yourself, but at least avoid discouraging people with legitimate worries who want to take precautions. Even the present situation with nuclear weapons, precarious as it is, would likely be more precarious were it not for the political pressure of the people worrying in the 1950s and 1960s and up to today.
>Spinning the present situation or the history of nuclear arms as a high-five, "go team human!" success story is... quite the take (Vasili Arkhipov, Cuban missile crisis generally, the current doomsday clock being "the closest the Clock has ever been to midnight in its history").
I edited a response to this in my grandparent comment.
>More germanely, you don't have to worry yourself, but at least avoid discouraging people with legitimate worries who want to take precautions. Even the present situation with nuclear weapons, precarious as it is, would likely be more precarious were it not for the political pressure of the people worrying in the 1950s and 1960s and up to today.
Sorry, I may have mis-communicated. I want people to take precautions! That's why I linked to PauseAI: https://pauseai.info/ I'm trying to push back against defeatism.
When writing math papers, many (but unfortunately not all) mathematicians go through a post-processing step, where they take their ideas and proofs, and try to reduce them to simple and reusable core ideas that can be understood by the reader. Good writers will often also provide some representative examples that guided the proofs, explaining why various intermediate results can't be strengthened and why the proof can't be made much shorter without inventing new techniques. If AI-generated proofs were required to go through such a post-processing step before being published, that would go a long way towards improving the situation.
It's funny that seems like a step the human mathematicians would want, and (at least for now) might still outperform the machines on. In the same way that, eg, the notebooks of Galois contained the core breakthroughs in a messy form, and generations after him simplified and synthesized those ideas, until you finally have books and videos accessible to undergraduates.
One proposal that Tao hints at is to not rush to announce solutions. Instead maybe the AI companies should work privately with the subject matter experts on how to communicate the discoveries.
If frontier labs had chosen to go the path of offering to assist in existing endeavors, helping to build knowledge alongside researchers in ongoing projects and following ethical and professional research standards, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all; everyone would be stoked. Instead we have companies that disgracefully try to scoop researchers and fail to properly attribute earlier work and instead rebrand it as their own (what we normally call plagiarism) to make marketing material.
having labs open their research: what harness system they used, what types of problems they tackled, which problems success and which fail, how they success and fail so we have a better idea of what tasks LLM are currently good at
I am all for individual freedoms, but I've read enough about this issue, and seen enough documentaries, that I think the claim is very well-founded. Of course, some porn stars are just willing adults doing something they want to do, but there are many who are not.
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