Come on over to The Car Lounge please!! We’re an eclectic group of enthusiasts, don’t take anything too seriously, and would love to see something like this.
Ignore the title for now and read through it, I believe there are excellent tips in note taking and how to process the notes to really excel in your studies.
If you're already working you have to adapt that system into something that works for you best, some use a bullet journal or audio notes and process them differently.
One really interesting approach (that I wasn't able to implement yet in full form) is to take creative notes (called sketchnotes). This works well if you're a visual person.
A great book on this would be The Sketchnote Handbook by Mike Rohde.
For those who feel like a side project needs to be successful or reach a certain amount of revenue/lines of code/users to be successful in your eyes: Don't feel pressured.
In my career (granted not a long one, but made it to C-Level in a startup after about 5-7 years) I've always used them to show my interest and learning skill to do something. It didn't matter whether it had 1 user or 1 million, employers were always very impressed and it always gives you an advantage during interviewing. Most of those have also been with very little or no code at all.
I'm normally prioritising people with side projects in the recruiting process vs. people who only did school -> work
One thing that's always helped me in interviews is to bring these side projects - physically - into the interview. Often it's customary to not bring anything but your resume. I typically bring a print-out of my projects, some GitHub code, some documentation samples, and maybe even my laptop with projects pre-opened so that we have things to talk about.
I always qualify this as "just in case you are interested", but they are almost always interested. Nobody wants to talk about a bland resume; they'd rather talk about the things you found a genuine interest in.
I've had co-workers remember, years after interviewing me, that I brought in some little piece of hardware I built to the interview.
I've showed off circuit boards, half-baked Android apps and referenced webpages during interviews. It always helps.
A couple years ago at an interview debrief, the HR guy said, "Oh, the candidate told me that he was writing some kind of software to automate his home. Who would do that? Weird." And every developer in the room looking at each other and saying "and you didn't think to tell us that?"
I've done this before (just the laptop and an HDMI cable) and also had success with it.
It sort of wakes people up out of a traditional interview expectation and instead they now have to actually listen to what I'm saying rather than going through canned questions and answers.
Hey, I know it's just a small comment on HN so I don't know the whole picture and you very well may already know/do this, but people who tend to have free time to just pump out side projects without worrying about work tend to be already-privileged people.
I get what you mean about not even really needing the project to work, just show that you have an idea and wanna work on it, yadda yadda, but I think you'll eliminate some good candidates and hard workers if you see a lack of side projects as a lack of devotion or work ethic.
No I get it, you're right. It's not that I'm counting them out, it's more of an advantage that people with side projects tend to have, but it's super individual and my opinion is just one of many.
No, they are not right, they are very very wrong and probably just using this an excuse to be lazy; don't let people shame you for actually doing something.
I've had the same experience, but just wanted to sum this up as it's advice I've given to others: make side projects public.
This doesn't even have to be fancy, even just a list of projects on your own personal site with links to Github and what you learned/what you hoped to accomplish.
Having the public list is also good as many times the projects might be done at the behest of a company or you don't have a good way to "show" them so it's your chance to write them up and get "credit" for your work on them.
But there are lots of people who just learn without "polluting" the world with unfinished or finished but useless projects. Many don't see reason to dump yet another toy compiler, toy OS or similar project. i.e. it's not just "only did school" alternative.
What's your path from developer to C-Level?
I feel like the companies I've been at don't really let developers move up to management positions, unless you come from the outside or somehow gained management skills somewhere.
I started out in product management, junior level. Then product owner (focus mobile) later on head of product and then c-level.
Developers (or PMs) who are interested in the business they work in and participate actively tend to get promoted/pushed. You have to understand the business perspective if you want to move up and get away from the thought of "I'm just here to develop and if I make the product great, everyone will recognize my talent/skill"
Are unfinished projects worth anything to an prospective employer?
I have plenty of projects I attempted before getting busy with real life. Should I show those when asked for a Github?
YMMV, but when I interview as an employer is ask a candidate to talk me through a project they really enjoyed. It can be work-based or a side-project, doesn't matter as long as it's something they really enjoyed. We then use that to explore what it was that excited them, the technology decisions they made, etc.[1]
If your answer was an unfinished project, I'd want to know why they were unfinished. Did you give up on them because of external pressures, you had a better idea, or because you often struggle to finish things you've started?
That last one is not alway a pejorative statement, BTW. Some people are great at figuring out the big stuff and then need others to help them execute on the detail (think about architects or producers). Others however, just give up at the first obstacle they meet, and if I get that impression from a candidate I'd want to dig into it a bit as it's possibly a yellow flag.
My advice then: think carefully about what they are likely to ask you about those unfinished projects, and what your answers are likely to be, before you offer them up.
[1] The most interesting answer to this question I've had was "an OpenGL renderer for the X Window System written in Lisp". My follow-up questions were many...
> That last one is not alway a pejorative statement, BTW. Some people are great at figuring out the big stuff and then need others to help them execute on the detail (think about architects or producers). Others however, just give up at the first obstacle they meet, and if I get that impression from a candidate I'd want to dig into it a bit as it's possibly a yellow flag.
The most common reason for me to ditch a side project is that I've gained what satisfaction is to be gained from making it. For example, I want to try or learn some new thing and convince myself I can do it. Once I'm far enough to know how it works (even if it's not really doing much yet), I'm satisfied and I can move on to the next interesting thing.
That's why I have basically no side projects to show off..
High-pay or high-reputation jobs where the employer can be selective (FAANG, quant finance) seem to test for high IQ with interview "puzzles" (computer science puzzles of course).
Good employers, but who do not have more qualified candidates than they know what to do with, are already very happy with someone who simply has an interest in his job, as this is already rare enough. They pay attention to personal projects as signs that you actually belong in IT.
Government and, by extension, the consultancies that cater to them, pay attention to diplomas. Bureaucracies recognizing the stamp of approval of another bureaucracy, is one way of looking at it.
If you're going for a bigger tech firm, they're more likely to ask you to do the interview puzzle format.
Learning how to do those is a useful skill in its own right, even if they're "toy problems", because what you're learning is a process to break a problem down, and then make a choice based on your knowledge of data structures and algorithms about how to approach it.
Getting good at those puzzles means you flex muscles related to:
- Problem breakdown into logical steps, or what I now call "the useful thing CS50 actually teaches"
- Data Structures
- Algorithms
- Communicating your thought process on all of the above
Those skills are going to help you in any developer job, but might also give you more confidence to take on side projects you wouldn't otherwise. You might look at something out there and think "woah, I want to go figure that out", and now your mental muscles are slightly better trained for it.
What I want when interviewing isn't necessarily a good guide, but typically the technical skills are a baseline and then I want:
- People who can be mentored and aren't know-it-alls. A touch of humility about them. Finds pairing whilst driving scary but will try it.
- People who want to mentor others. Finds pairing whilst not driving scary or frustrating, but will try it.
- Able to work within a team towards a common goal
- Will take ownership and accountability of their own individual tasks
These are things you're more likely find from previous work experience and maybe in side projects, at a push.
I agree with the people who answered before me. The smaller the startup the more important your side project could be. The bigger the company, the more streamlined the hiring process and the more likely that you would encounter puzzles etc.
I'd say if you're going for FAANG-type companies, definitely prepare for the puzzles and quizzes, but for a more smaller one (let's say sub-100 people) go for the side project approach.
Exceptions do apply obviously: I've had friends who got hired at FAANG because of a side project that grew and got the attention of the engineers at said company.
If the project's purpose was to learn or experiment with X, it doesn't matter that it's not a polished product, it still served its purpose and as such can be considered done.
Depends on the definition of "unfinished" - it's good to create something that's workable to some state (or at least demo something). If you're using a repo of unrunnable code as an example of your skills, you probably need to have a robust explanation of what needs to be done to get it working.
However, I doubt lots of examples of half-complete projects will reflect too well, and might be more of a hindrance ("doesn't follow through, constantly jumping from thing to thing...") than a benefit. Pick one you're proud of and run with it, even if it's just a "this is the state, this is what I'd do to get it running...".
I do - assuming there’s actually something to show off then I put it up. I have static websites only half full of content, repositories with just an assortment of scripts and configs, libraries that are just enough to meet the use case, etc
If you're doing it even partly for purposes of looking good in an interview, I can assure you that it really doesn't matter. Pretty much anything you do other than just "I wrote this code at company A to do features B,C & D" will immediately set you apart from the crowd.
I've interviewed well over 100 people and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number that even mentioned some kind of side project.
I'd argue that only the last two questions are relevant.
- Both web and smartphone apps can create this kind of revenue.
- The tech stack is 99% irrelevant unless the end customer depends on it, which in 99% of the times, isn't the case.
The hotel reservation problem actually happened to me. I booked the hotel via a company called AMOMA, which Google recommended me when I entered the hotel name (it was the cheapest so I took it).
They recently sent me an email saying that they immediately ceased service and our booking will probably be cancelled. I checked with the hotel the same day and got a confirmation that the booking is all good (via phone and email). One day after I get an email from the hotel saying our booking has been canceled.
I did pay via (prepaid) credit card so it'll be interesting to see whether I'll ever get my money back...
I have recently seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4CPBHj0UQk a garage in California specialized in changing oldtimer engines to electric engines. They seem to be booked out months in advance.
Another company I have heard from is doing this specifically for supercars, so special Porsches etc.
I feel like both the margin and the clientele would be much more fun to deal with, as with this approach (as many have mentioned) the scaling will be the difficult part.
For anyone interested, the "garage in California" is EV West. Here are three more in-depth videos from the wonderful Fully Charged channel about EV West:
Thanks!