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If that's your measuring stick then Adolf should get the credit for creating the right condition.

European colonial power would have never left if they hadn't got into war of attrition with Hitlar.

British left their biggest colony India only when Indian soldiers revolted and they were too weak to crush it post WW2. It was simply not possible to rule after this incident.


She and her family is responsible for a lot of atrocities around the world. Yet a lot of people here are eulogizing as if she was a saint who taught art of living to the people.

To me this is a demonstration of power of conditioning and media management.


My family is Argentine. The Queen’s son personally boarded a war ship to travel 7000km away to kill Argentines because they dared assert sovereignty against another country in a completely separate hemisphere of the Earth. The idea that the days of empire building are behind us is false.


Argentina itself is a creation of Spanish Imperialism, and British control of the islands dates to that same era, before Argentina became a nation. I don't see how either one can be claimed to be more or less creations of Imperialism than the other.

The fact is the British foreign office had been trying to find ways to offload the islands on Argentina for ages. The British government felt they were an expensive nuisance that were an obstacle to better relations in the region. The Galtieri regime only invaded because they needed a boost in popularity. Negotiation is one thing, but military occupation quite another.

There is (or could have been) a legitimate discussion to be had about the history of control of the islands. Sure. But those who resort to pre-emptive military force, when facing no threat to themselves, have no business complaining when the resulting conflict goes against them. Suez is a good example of us learning that lesson the hard way.


My understanding was that the Falklands voted to remain in the UK and the UK fought to defend that democratic wish. If this is wrong please inform me so I can update my knowledge. If it's correct though, I don't see how fighting to defend a democratic mandate is a bad thing? Aren't we all cheering on Ukraine for exactly this right now?


Yes, all of the British voted to remain. None of the Argentine, or other South Americans were legally allowed to cast a ballot. I guess that's the UK's idea of a democracy.


The people who weren't living on the Falklands didn't get a vote, true.


Surely the only people who should have got a vote in this matter are the people living on the island? If you’re going to let everyone vote on everything then the entire world would end up being owned by China because it’s got the most people.


> Surely the only people who should have got a vote in this matter are the people living on the island? If you’re going to let everyone vote on everything then the entire world would end up being owned by China because it’s got the most people.

That's my point, yes.


I wasn't aware of this, so there were Argentinians and others who were permanently living on the island who weren't allowed to vote? Surely this is not the case today? I would definitely have to read more from all sides to get a better picture of the entire event from all perspectives.


An Argentine dictatorship was trying to build its empire by conquering a bunch of people who voted to remain British.

That they can paint that as British Imperialism blows my mind.


Can you describe what they did, personally, that makes them responsible for atrocities? Yes I know she was head of state, but she had no significant executive or legislative power. I don't see how she's responsible in a practical sense for such things any more than any British citizen.



Posting bare links is rarely helpful.

> In one instance the Queen completely vetoed the Military Actions Against Iraq Bill in 1999, a private member's bill that sought to transfer the power to authorise military strikes against Iraq from the monarch to parliament.

A wise move indeed, if Blair's record is to be taken into account.


Two old yet alive Indian languages Sanskrit and Tamil have hymns even older. I wonder why Sanskrit and it's rich collection of hymns completely gets ignored.

Nasadiya Suktam[0] from RigVeda[1] ponders the questions of our origins in sweet melody.

[0] https://youtu.be/SYlP7DXtyQ8

[1] https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda


Came here to saw this. The problem with the internet as a whole is euro-centrism. Pretty sure even Chinese culture has equally old "hymns" and songs.

South American too, but the conquistadors destroyed everything.


Hurrian Hymn No. 6 is not European, and this does not claim to be older than the Rig Veda. The difference is that the vedas do not describe melodies; just literature. They were probably sung with specific melodies, but nobody knows what the originals are anymore


> India as a whole didn't even exist back then...

Vishnu Puran composed circa 400 BCE to 900 CE says.

  उत्तरं यत् समुद्रस्य हिमाद्रेश्चैव दक्षिणम् | वर्षं तद् भारतं नाम भारती यत्र सन्ततिः ||

 Land that lies north to the sea and south of Himalaya is called Bharat(India) and it's people Bharti (Indian)

Political system was diffrent from what we see today. But that doesn't mean land called Bharat didn't exist culturally and politically.


Isha Upnishad[0] was written in 1st half of 1st millennium BCE as per the conservative estimates. Its Shanti Mantra(wishing peace to all living beings) of says:

ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पूर्णमुदच्यते ।

पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥

ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥

Om Puurnnam-Adah Puurnnam-Idam Puurnnaat-Puurnnam-Udacyate | Puurnnasya Puurnnam-Aadaaya Puurnnam-Eva-Avashissyate || Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||

Rough Translation:

That (god) is complete(puurnnam), this living being is complete. From completeness emerges completeness. When this completeness (living beings) emerges from that completeness (god), only completeness remains.

This verse describes God. But it can also be describing concept of zero and infinity. Buddhist philosophy emerging in 500 BCE is based in shoonyata[1] (nothingness) so concept of zero was definitely known for a long time.

As far as mathematical applications are concerned, we can't say for sure as a lot of knowledge was lost to invasions which specifically targeted universities like Nalanda[2].

Hindus imagined time scales of microseconds to trillions of years which in IMHO difficult to imagine without zero based mathematics[3].

Having said that there are a large number of manuscripts in the hands of small groups and families are yet to be discovered so these dates.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isha_Upanishad [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81 [2] https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2017/09/11/nalanda-9-million-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_units_of_time


The idea of zero is that it's used in a positional numeric system, not just as a symbol for nothingness, like in

    1305
  + 0935
    ----
    2240
or in calculations

   ((5-5)+2)*0 = (0+2)*0 = 2*0 = 0


Thanks, but that's such a narrow definition of the concept.

Shukla Yajurveda[0] conservatively estimated to be written in 1200- 800 BCE period in 17.2.20 constructs powers of 10 upto a billion by names by adding shunya successively to 10.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yajurveda


This is the concept of zero. The title said "The Elusive Origin of Zero". Widening the definition to something else doesn't expand understanding but creates confusion.


As Swami Sarvapriyananda is fond of saying, this verse encapsulates the essence of Advaita Vedanta. This verse is in fact his favourite. He has given hours and hours of talks on it. There is a lot packed into it.


IMHO idiomatic defensive coding is very hard.


> It is also true that in many countries, covering populations much larger than that of the United States, hemp production was never made illegal and continued unabated ...

Only India and China are more populous than USA and it's illegal in India despite being an import and useful ingredient of Indian medicine system.

I am not claiming hemp to be a miracle material. But covert lobbying, scheming to obliterate the superior alternatives does exist.


Bill Gates mother having a seat on IBM's board was not a factor in IBM giving him such a sweet deal?


Mary Gates was on the board of United Way; so was IBM's chairman at the time, so they were friendly. She didn't work for as a director of IBM.


Hindus imagined this thousand of years ago.

Uncountable universes(multiverse) are born when Supreme consciousness Vishnu breathes out. Inside each universe God Bharma is born with the responsibly of managing the affair. Brahma lives for his 100 years which is roughly 311 billion years. During this time many mini cycles of creation and dissolution takes place. When Bharma finally dies after completing his 100 years,that particular universe dies with him. After another 311 billion years another Brahma is born again and universe restarts. When supreme god Vishnu finally breathes in, multiverse stop existing and creation end till the time supreme god breathes out again.


That's beautiful. I always wondered if there's some lost knowledge from ye olde ancient past where people knew more (about what we consider scinetific facts now) than we thought they did when they came up with these stories.


Hindus were thinking about time ranging from nano seconds to billions of years[0]. As far lost knowledge is concerned Indian civilization have faced numerous attacks especially on its knowledge system and wealth. During one such attack Nalanda university was destroyed, more than 10000 teachers were killed, and library with millions of books was set on fire which raged for 3 months. Invaders themselves recorded these event gleefully. As per them India was a land of idol worshipers.Here is summary article which contains links to primary sources[1]. It's through struggle and luck Indian civilization have survived although with lots of gaps.

I am sure there were others great civilizations. But they are not here any more to tell the tale.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_units_of_time

[1] https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2017/09/11/nalanda-9-million-...


I think the Greeks through Anaximander had the concept of "apeiron", or the infinite. Some of them believed the universe to be infinitely old, therefore they must have had the concept of one to infinity, including billions.


Yep ancient civilizations have thought about these concepts for a long time. Some got destroyed by floods, some by famine, but horrific destruction have happened when Abrahmic religions came on the scene with "holier than thou" philosophy which made destruction of others a religious duty.

Hindus were obsessed with zero and infinity and to them it was the same as god itself. Shanti mantra(used to wish well to all living being) from īśopaniṣad says.

> ओं | पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पूर्णमुदच्यते । पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥

> oṃ | pūrṇamadaḥ pūrṇamidaṃ pūrṇātpūrṇamudacyate | pūrṇasya pūrṇamādāya pūrṇamevāvaśiṣyate ||

> That is Whole and this is Whole, the perfect has come out of the perfect; having taken the perfect from the perfect, only the perfect remains. Let there be Peace, Peace, Peace.

Verse above describes God superficially but it also describes zero and infinity[0]. This small text with only 18 verses and yet it is so profound. Similarly Buddhist philosophy which also came out from India is based on Shunya(zero).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isha_Upanishad


>>but horrific destruction have happened when Abrahmic religions came on the scene with "holier than thou" philosophy which made destruction of others a religious duty.

Both true and false. Most of the killing and destruction was done by the pagans to themselves. The pagan wars were no joke. Here in the Indian subcontinent itself there was a war called 'Kalinga War', the death and destruction was just so much and complete. Nothing remained standing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_War

This is just to be honest one of many hundreds to thousands of wars in India alone. Paganism was mostly destroyed by its own people.


After Kalinga war Ashoka renounced voilence as per the teaching of Buddhism. Do you have a parallel example from Abrahmic kings?

Having said that every civilization have had destructive infights. People fought for money, power,fame etc.

But that doesn't mean they destroyed each other's knowledge system, temples, and monuments. That's is only true for Abrahmic philosophy which stresses on destroying the culture and knowledge systems of the conquered.


>>After Kalinga war ... Do you have a parallel example from Abrahmic kings?

No, I don't have any example of any king in Europe, Middle East or North Africa who fought a war as destructive as Kalinga war. And that's just one war.

>>Having said that every civilization have had destructive infights. People fought for money, power,fame etc.

Causes for the fall of any civilisation are always internal, eventually you just get take over by somebody better.

>>That's is only true for Abrahmic philosophy which stresses on destroying the culture and knowledge systems of the conquered.

Would love read more upon 'Abrahmic Philosophy'.


> No, I don't have any example of any king in Europe...

Kalinga deaths are recorded to be 150000. I will suggest reading about the crusades and others religious wars to find how many were killed. Please also read about how Bible was used to justify the slavery and subjugation of pagans.

Indian conquered upto Cambodia, Persians conquered a big part of known world yet didn't engage in erasing the native population or the culture of conquered. But in contrast almost entire population of native Americans were annihilated. They practically do not exist.

> Would love read more upon 'Abrahmic Philosophy'.

First 2 commandments of bible summarises the doctrine/philosophy.


Unattached action is the central message of epic Hindu text Bhagwad Gita.Two shlokas (verses) I find extremely comforting are [2.47] and [3.5].

Verse [2.47] says:

1) Only rightful action is in your control.

2) Fruits of your action is never in your control.

3) Give up the pride of doership .

4) Last but not the least do not get into inaction.

Verse 3.5 says:

No body can remain inactive even for a second. All living being have to act even to sustain their bodies.

Anyone interested in stoicism should also read it from a good translation.


There is also that when you are too enamored by the results of your action, it gets in the way of doing.

The Tao Te Ching also talks about not striving for things.

It is interesting that these three philosophies from three different civilizations at different times overlap in their outlook to life, which hints at something permanent. It would be great to map the migration of these ideas between them and how we arrived at the diverged modern day outlook.


I think ancient people have gone through same struggles and came up with similar answers and they also exchanged ideas.

> enamored by the results of your action

Bhagwad Gita is poetry and philosophy but it also reasons from the first principle. How attachments leads to self destruction is deducted so well in verse 2.62 and 63. I can read/recite Sankrit a little and it's so amazing to think that you can have poetry and step by step reasoning in same verse.

Reasoning goes like this:

Verse 2.62

1. When one deliberates the fruits of the action, they get attached to it.

2. Attachment leads to desire.

3. Desire lead to the anger.

Verse 2.64 carried the thought forward and finished it.

4. Anger leads results in confusion.

5. Confused person loses the memory.

6. Loss of memory leads to destruction of intellect which lead to complete destruction.

All of this sound much more melodic and transcendental when you can understand.


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