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since you're being deliberately obtuse, i'll spell it out for you on his behalf.

WILL USERS STILL LIKE IT, WHICH IS WHAT GETS DEVELOPER SUPPORT, NOW THAT IT COSTS MONEY?

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You know? I had a long post written out. About how I'm actually one of those developers who you're questioning and so on. But, none of that is relevant. The only thing that matters is this:

Growl is the #2 app in the entire Mac App Store. It has been in that position since the Growl developers first put it on the App Store weeks ago. The only thing outselling Growl is Mac OS X itself.

So, please. The next time you want to accuse someone of being "deliberately obtuse", consider that the person you are talking to might actually know what they're talking about and step back before you make yourself look silly and condescending. :)

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i guess the advanced high school was so advanced they still had recess...

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So, uhm, what’s this meme all about? It has been mentioned here twice. What’s recess got to do with how good a school is? I’m from Germany and I have never heard anyone suggest that breaks are a bad thing. This seems completely bizarre to me.

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"Recess" has rather specific connotations in American English. It is not simply another word for "break". It connotes a supervised, semi-structured playtime for young children, generally outdoors, in the presence of teachers.

By the time one hits high school (9th grade) in the US, such things do not occur. You may have free time between classes, but it is not referred to or treated the same way as the period known as "recess".

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your faith in the police to protect women is almost charmingly naive.

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the daily life of most women is filled with navigating a hostile space that may break out into sexual violence at any time.

having an obsessed troll on the internet following you around, or threatening you before you show up to a conference, goes way beyond what you're talking about here.

your whole point comes from a place of the privilege of relative security. imagine that is not the case.

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the daily life of most women is filled with navigating a hostile space that may break out into sexual violence at any time.

Who are you talking about?

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ask any woman how often she considers her personal safety navigating the world. consider how often you do it.

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"the daily life of most women is filled with navigating a hostile space that may break out into sexual violence at any time."

If you live in a warzone in Africa, maybe. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'd ask the women around me if they feel that way but I'm afraid they'll think I'm nuts if I were to ask them such clearly outrageous things.

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I'm not defending the mentality, just describing its origination. Please note my last few sentences.

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empathy will fix it.

you are illustrative of the problem because you are a) ignorant of what harassment is really like b) apparently unwilling to imagine it and c) BLAMING THE HARASSED

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  > BLAMING THE HARASSED
This is a mantra that I see a lot, but let's stop for a second. If I put a sign above my head that says "Murder Me," can I really be surprised if someone takes me up on the offer? Does stating that mean that I am attempting to absolve the person that murdered me of murder? No, it doesn't.

Put more simply, if you're going to crusade for a cause where the opposite side is likely to get nasty, you should probably be prepared for war. Did Martin Luther King Jr give up because the police brought out fire hoses?

That said, while I can't really empathize, I do sympathize, and find some of the examples of bad behavior that people are highlighting as having happened to women as atrocious. If I found out that someone at my company had shown a naked picture of himself to any interviewee, you can bet that I could make sure that it his/her career was ground into the pavement through word of mouth.

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If the only harassment you know is digital I would suggest you don't know either what it is like. Not that I do.

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First of all, I never blamed her.

In my first point I note how people who give talks are subject to attack because they draw attention to themselves. I note how there are men (men who I know personally) who have been attacked as a result. I posit that this kind of behavior is not solely due to sexism.

In my second point I equate running a geek feminist website with running any website wherein people who hate the idea of the website will send hate mail. I posit that one should expect that people who hate you will send you hate mail.

In my third point I am noting that you don't have to quit the whole tech industry because giving talks is not the only thing in the tech industry.

My fourth point is the closest to 'blame' that I get. There's no sugar-coating it, i'm being heartless and cold here. But I don't blame her for not wanting to deal with assholes all day. I suggest that she learn to deal with these people rather than run away from them, but I guess that's not something a lot of people will accept.

My fifth point isn't even related to her really. I just find it super annoying when people try to speculate about something based on anecdotal evidence ("Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be true but unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise unrepresentative of typical cases.")

Second, empathy alone will not fix it.

You can not "win" against sexism by simply wishing it would go away or agreeing that it's completely unfair and unwarranted. Racism didn't completely stop in America, ever, and it only got a little better after people fought and bled to be treated as equals. They had to get right in their attackers' faces and say, Fuck You, I'm Not Leaving. Same for women's suffrage. Empathizing alone doesn't fix anything but your own conscience. You want to stop sexism in tech? Make it stop. Also, before you point the finger at me and tell me I should be the first person to fight their battles, keep in mind that nobody ever won freedom from persecution until they themselves stood up to defend themselves.

Also, I don't need to have experienced harassment personally to have an opinion about it. I'm not black but I think it's really fucked up that black people get treated far worse than I do because i'm white. Amazingly enough, even though I find racism absolutely repugnant, I don't believe every black person who gets fucked with is purely because of racism. I also don't believe every single woman who is fucked with is just because of sexism.

I can't believe I just wrote all that because of a troll. I say sexism is fucked up, and this guy blames me for sexism in the tech industry. Oh well. I should have just ignored you from the beginning.

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I say sexism is fucked up, and this guy blames me for sexism in the tech industry.

No, you didn't say that. You said it was inevitable and that people should suck it up and stop harping on it. You're not the victim here.

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I did say that people should suck it up. I was referring to ignoring the treatment (online) as a better form of dealing with it than running away. But at the same time that confronting the attackers would be a more proactive effort. Not to stop harping on it. I specifically said women should mobilize and work proactively to prevent sexism in the industry, which is far from 'stop harping on it'. But thanks for cherry picking two things I said, displaying them out of context and inserting your own agenda.

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keep telling women what to do because you know better, i'm sure that will end the sexism really fast

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TBH i think the email method mentioned up-thread is more awesome, but wtf do i know. you could do that more quickly, it would seem to me.

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Thanks. It's definitely way less effort (and I speak as an Objective C coder) but doesn't have the ease or slickness of taking the photo then starting to sell.

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Here you go, Sergey: "You're being a dick."

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i like the site. i would prefer a more passive indicator, that indicates my status in a less strident tone.

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i read it as making fun of knee jerk anti-new-language types, as in, all their arguments are pat and repetitive.

maybe that's just my perceptual bias, but perhaps also the greater context of hacker news that you point to in your comment. i tend to believe that things are posted here in support of experimentation.

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http://news.ycombinator.com

apparently.

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