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There are vim bindings. From the docs:

  Use the "Vim: Toggle vim mode" command from the command tab.

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methehack 353 days ago | link

I wonder if will it be possible to associate user defined clojurescript commands with arbitrary vim keybindings? That would be great! Also, I wonder if there will be support for user defined vim like operators and motions... Or, alternatively, if the plugin architecture will be low level enough to support a vim "emulation" plugin.

Also -- very, very exciting work overall -- visionary even. Kudos!

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celerity 353 days ago | link

I wonder how useful these are. It seems like a lot of the functionality of Light Table is accessed through mouse interactions.

With that said, I could still use some emacs bindings :)

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I'd argue that software and digital technology are different from everything that the legal system has legislated on in the past because this is the first time we've been able to make 100% accurate copies for zero cost. (Ok, maybe not zero with the cost of electricity and storage, but essentially zero.) I also feel that the legal protections of the patent system, while perhaps not completely broken, are certainly not tuned to the realities of software development. Software is different. It's sui generis and I believe our laws should be adjusted to reflect that.

That said, I agree completely with your point about integration. The worst thing we can do as a community is step aside and allow others to create legislation that is not in the interest of technology or the good of the people at large.

Edit: minor grammar.

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rayiner 393 days ago | link

We have had, for hundreds of years, technology that makes the cost of each marginal copy of a creative work some tiny percentage of what people are willing to pay for that work. Digital technology making that percentage even smaller doesn't fundamentally change anything. There is nothing magic about "essentially zero cost" copies versus "negligible cost" copies.

This is largely because our whole system of property is structured so that marginal cost is broadly irrelevant. We have a pervasive notion in our system that people are entitled to the "benefit of the bargain." That is to say, people are entitled to profit from the difference in price people are willing to pay for something, based on supply and demand, and the marginal cost of producing that something. That's why Apple can sell for $600 iPhones that cost only $207 to produce, or why Louis Vuitton can sell for thousands of dollars handbags that cost maybe $100 to produce. The marginal cost of production is irrelevant, from the buyers viewpoint, in anything we buy. So why should it be different for digital goods?

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tracker1 393 days ago | link

I have more issues with even the concept of software and design patents far more than copyright.. wrt copyright, I only feel the terms have gotten out of control.

With software patents, I firmly believe that if an implementation isn't either difficult or novel, it shouldn't be patented... Example, the apple page-flip animation. The effect is a simulation of a real-world behavior (non-novel), and the implementation details are very simple (given the hardware interfaces are mostly solved, as are the computational logistics as problems solved). The hardware involved could certainly be patentable, as could the original implementations (now older than patents). For the most part, anything that simulates a real-world activity on a generally available computing hardware should not be patentable, it's usually very obvious, and often trivial to implement.

I also feel that even if software patents were to be protected, it should be much more limited, perhaps 5 years. If you can't gain an advantage in software with a 5 year head start, you don't deserve to win. That's just how I feel about it.

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czr80 393 days ago | link

You're right, the marginal cost argument is wrong, and yet there is something different going on here and I think I know what it is: The fundamental change here is that customers own the means of reproducing the product and reproduction costs are equal to the marginal cost. How much could Apple sell an iPhone for if the same was true? What would Apple do to remain in business?

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msellout 392 days ago | link

I think that's worth repeating: "the ownership of the means of production has changed". Intentionally rephrased to allude to a certain economist.

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dfj225 393 days ago | link

It wasn't my intention to focus on economics or digital products. What I am really arguing is the more fundamental aspect of information and the ability to copy and transmit it with 100% accuracy at great speed. This, I think, separates digital technology from all others. It's what makes it revolutionary and desirable. I think the impacts on society are obvious.

Edit: typos

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Joeri 393 days ago | link

I would agree that software is different in this way, but the difference is quantitative, not qualitative. Other industries have had low costs of reproduction, but this was coupled to a high cost of initial investment. Software is unique because you can credibly design and build a globally successful product on your own, and not have to involve anyone in the production and distribution of it.

This quantitative difference has revealed that the IP emperor has no clothes. Before there was an illusion that copyright and patents were a benefit to society in their current form, but this illusion is now stripped away. With 3d printing and autonomous delivery vehicles we're at the dawn of the softwarization of the material world. If we can figure out the best IP laws for software, those will eventually be the best for most if not all industries.

I personally believe that means that patents have to go. They cause more harm than they benefit. This is obvious for software, and eventually it will become obvious in all industries.

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stinky613 393 days ago | link

Software and digital technology are different from everything that the legal system has legislated on in the past because reproduction and distribution (basically) are free, instantaneous, limitless, and available to everyone.

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Squarespace is one of the companies in that data center. See here for their story (and some photos):

http://blog.squarespace.com/ http://status.squarespace.com/

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adanto6840 534 days ago | link

Thanks for the link! It had exactly what I was hoping for from the actual article / OP.

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The creator here.

You can find the source at: https://github.com/dfjones/Feedback

The app is built using NodeJS with express and socket.io.

I hacked this together in a matter of hours, so there are definitely things that could be done much better. However, I think this is a great proof-of-concept.

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I think there's an interesting distinction between real-time from the point of view of the user and the technology/systems providing data to the user. I agree that in the future, communication services will be less real-time, allowing users to focus their attention on the task at hand rather than the distraction that is the latest email/text message/tweet.

However, I believe the systems that do handle this communications data will need to be increasingly real-time. There will be so much data that unless it is indexed and collated in real-time, it will be impossible to perform queries to sort through mountains of un-indexed data. I think computers will become more like intelligent agents, bringing things that require immediate action to our attention and filing/organizing everything else for our later consumption.

There are already services, such as News.me and Prismatic, providing these services for Twitter. In the future, I expect the idea behind these services to be closer to the norm rather than the exception they are today.

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dfj225 750 days ago | link | parent | on: Wind Map

This would be even better if it could display change over time. To support, for example, animate the change in wind direction for the past week.

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dfj225 885 days ago | link | parent | on: Cracking Siri

Sure, but there's nothing illegal about Apple kicking someone out of the App Store on a whim either.

Doesn't matter if you are breaking the law or not, plenty of legal apps get rejected. Apple sets their own terms outside of US law.

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alastairpat 885 days ago | link

Apple has to comply with its contract just as the developers do. I did just check the agreement and either party can terminate with 30 days' notice for any or no reason, so they could theoretically terminate.

Given this is completely out of the scope of the App Store or even the SDK (contrast with the security researcher who got unapproved code executing), however, I don't imagine Apple will feel the need to terminate. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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ugh 885 days ago | link

Apple usually avoids shitstorms or backpedals if they cause one – but sometimes they don't.

It's not unreasonable to assume at Apple won't do anything but it's risky.

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> Should companies be held accountable if foreign governments use their products for political suppression?

How could a company be responsible for something like a computer, which is capable of doing an infinite number of things? If America feels that strongly about the human rights violations going on in China, I feel that the only way to prevent American made technology from being used in that fashion is to prevent the sale of all technology to China. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, but it doesn't seem possible to expect technology companies to police how their tech is used in foreign countries.

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CWuestefeld 1018 days ago | link

How could a company be responsible for something like a computer, which is capable of doing an infinite number of things?

I don't think that anyone is saying that Cisco would be responsible. But that's no reason to make things easier for the despots. If they're working with Cisco, it's either because Cisco can do it better or cheaper. Wouldn't someone with a conscience desire to make it either less effective for China, or make them pay more dearly, for such a system?

If America feels that strongly... prevent the sale of all technology to China

How does "America" feel anything? We're a nation of individuals, we do not all feel in unison, or even in agreement. That is why, when somebody feels something, they need to take whatever action they can themselves -- and that includes the Cisco management, board, and stockholders. Conversely, because the government cannot speak for the morals and values of any particular American, regulations like you suggest will always be purely political efforts, easily co-opted by special interests.

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dfj225 1018 days ago | link

> How does "America" feel anything?

I should have said the American Government.

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jseliger 1018 days ago | link

"How could a company be responsible for something like a computer, which is capable of doing an infinite number of things?"

There's a big difference between selling a computer, which could potentially do an infinite number of things, and a vast security system expressly designed for surveillance on the population, the suppression of dissent, and the curtailing of human rights.

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dfj225 1018 days ago | link

Right, but I don't think anyone claimed that Cisco sold a system designed for surveillance or suppression. The claims seem to be that Cisco sold networking or other common hardware that will probably be used for such purposes, or in a system (created by the Chinese government) designed for such purposes.

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> I don't understand what this "fret" is about.

My perception is that they are worried that their existing knowledge (in .NET or any other MS dev tech) will not allow them to create applications for this new touch interface. Instead, they will be forced to use a new technology if they want to create an app for the new Windows 8 interface.

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TomOfTTB 1050 days ago | link

You're partially right. But I'd draw your attention to this part of the article...

"Underlying the discussion is that developers have clients, and clients want applications that run on a platform with a future. Currently, Microsoft is promoting HTML and JavaScript as the future for Windows applications, putting every client-side .NET developer at a disadvantage in those pitches."

Remember most MS developers work in corporate environments. Either in companies or as consultants. No one wants to spend money to build a "legacy" app. So when Microsoft says HTML5 apps are the future but doesn't lay out how their APIs are going to work it freezes many .NET developers in their tracks. Because now Silverlight and WPF are legacy but you don't know how to pitch these new Windows 8 apps to a client because Microsoft hasn't specified how they'll work.

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rbanffy 1050 days ago | link

I get the impression some developers really dislike learning new things.

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kenjackson 1050 days ago | link

I don't think it's learning new things per se. The main thing is they don't like the technology stack and the dev tools.

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rbanffy 1050 days ago | link

Most of the time, the criticism comes before the first contact with the technology being criticized. For instance, most of the people who criticize Smalltalk's "alien" syntax never finished a single tutorial.

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kenjackson 1050 days ago | link

I think that does often happen the way you described, but not in this case.

First, to be a dev using the MSFT stack, as I'm sure you know, you learn a new technology every week -- so they're not against learning new things :-)

But more importantly, most of them complaining have used HTML/JS, and many use it regularly for the web side of the house. It's not an obscure language/Fx that people haven't touched before. They maybe haven't written Angry Bird with it (which BTW, their JS looks like it was machine generated -- anyone know how it was done?), but most know the technology decent enough to comment about it.

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rbanffy 1050 days ago | link

> most of them complaining have used HTML/JS

Using HTML/JS in Internet Explorer is very different from developing on a platform where HTML/JS application development is fully supported. I have been playing for some time with WebOS development and I am quite happy with it.

Anyway, I seriously doubt .NET will be deprecated anytime soon.

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kenjackson 1050 days ago | link

Using HTML/JS in Internet Explorer is very different from developing on a platform where HTML/JS application development is fully supported. I have been playing for some time with WebOS development and I am quite happy with it.

This is probably true. But the tooling still leaves a bit to be desired.

I was really excited about WebOS when it first came out, but they just took too long to get the SDK out. I eventually just moved on and haven't gone back. Although I do think the new stuff they're doing looks quite nice.

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rbanffy 1050 days ago | link

Are you confusing an SDK with an IDE? IIRC, the Palm launched an SDK early on, with a full device emulator. I don't see why an IDE is a basic requirement. I've been on and off IDEs for the past 2000 and, quite frankly, I am perfectly happy with Emacs.

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kenjackson 1050 days ago | link

No, I was given a Palm Pre (post-release), but didn't have access to the SDK. Here's an article:

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9134650/Palm_expects_...

If you were approved you got access, but most didn't. I think jwz ranted about this too. There were all these devs who wanted to write for it, but weren't given access. Eventually I gave the phone back.

General rule, your SDK needs to be done a month before product launch -- unless you're Apple.

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rbanffy 1050 days ago | link

Odd. I remember getting the SDK very early. Maybe the fact I was a PalmOS developer since ever did play in my favor.

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contextfree 1050 days ago | link

otoh, since the new app platform is based on IE10, it will have the new CSS3 grid module which seriously solves about half of the day-to-day problems I have with web front-end development.

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> How it will work when you're using it to do real work will be where the rubber meets the road...

That's where I wonder how well received this new interface will be. I wonder if this shell will just become something that most people skip past to get to the familiar Windows desktop. Granted, my experience as a power user (read: I'm a developer writing code and using the terminal--not on Windows but on OS X or Linux) is vastly different from that of a normal consumer, but I still think there is a common ground of using the computer to create rather than purely for consumption.

Still, very interesting concept. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this released.

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melvinram 1051 days ago | link

Yea, it was a thought I had too. It's similar to the Front Row and Media Center experience that most people probably don't use.

But I could see this having a different fate if it doesn't feel like a drag on the system and it can be made useful (as I think external developers will make it.)

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dfj225 1051 days ago | link

Thinking about it a little more, it really seems odd to combine two very different modes of operation -- one touch heavy and probably best for a tablet or some sort of mobile device and the other is the standard Windows UI operated by keyboard and mouse. Having both modes on the same hardware seems like an odd situation. Usually, a device naturally maps to one or the other mode. I suppose hardware manufacturers might build tablet/laptop hybrids or convertibles (they definitely have been trying, but I don't think any are popular) and Windows 8 might be a huge win on these devices. However, aside from this narrow subset of devices, I'm still guessing how this will play out.

For instance, the device used in the demo (assuming it has no other mode of operation) seems to me that it would be a nightmare for using Excel.

edit: added the last sentence.

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melvinram 1051 days ago | link

Yea, it's the same trap that Win Media Center fell into. 2-feet mode versus couch mode. Though touch is different. The largest segment of computers from what I understand are laptops. If these laptops are fitted with a MacBook Pros style touchpad that would be sensitive as iPads, it could introduce a whole new dynamic that we can't fully understand until we truly experience it.

For example, imagine a version of Excel that you could do the sum of a set of numbers by speaking "sum up these numbers" and swiping your fingers over the set that you wanted to do the sum on. Excel as it exists today may not be the best user of touch but tomorrow's Excel may provide much smarter ways of getting better milage out of it. It truly will be dependent on how well MS developers can imagine.

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mturmon 1051 days ago | link

Yes, a lot of the freshness involved using gestures, but that's been shown not to work for vertical screens like on laptops and desktops (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/gorilla-arm-multitouc...).

This gives the video the feel of a Courier-like demo. Inspirational to look at, but not realizable in practice.

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contextfree 1051 days ago | link

Media Center is pretty limited in what it can do, though. You can't browse the internet or browse the file system from it for example - two things that were shown in new-style Win8 touch UI in this video.

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melvinram 1050 days ago | link

Oh I didn't mean that Media Center could do stuff. I just meant that it was a separate experience.

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