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Tell HN: Hello
847 points by wwwarsame on July 19, 2015 | hide | past | favorite | 179 comments
Hello All,

My name is Mohamed, and I am a jail guard!

After a year or so reading HN, I finally made an account! This place is overwhelmingly full of smart people, and I sometimes feel out of place! I have learned a great deal from all of you. With this said, I am embarking on a two year journey to apply to YC in FALL of 2017. I have given myself this arbitrary timeline to motivate myself.

You see, I am a total noob. I'm about to enroll in an online coding bootcamp. This is to grasp enough CS/coding experience so I can graduate from the proverbial 'I'm looking for a technical co-founder' dilemma, and to build the MVP on my own. What I become, for better or worse, is how I will attract the right people to tell my story and grow a company together. In the meantime, I am working on myself first and learning each day from all of you. I am excited to begin this marathon I call starting a startup.




Mohamed let me tell you about my little sister. She was the opposite of me in that she hated school. Truly hated it. She said she'd never set foot in school again after graduating high school.

But, she wanted to be a police officer, and that required college. So she put herself through school by being a prison guard. My little 5'3" sister running around bossing grown men like it was nothing.

She made it through school and got hired as a police officer. She spent the next five years as a dispatcher. Nobody wanted to put her on the streets. But she persevered and eventually she won the day and became a patrol officer. I dare say except for getting married it was the happiest day of her life.

Don't let anything stop you, man. Smart isn't everything: perseverance counts for a great deal.


Thank you. The fear of starting anything worthwhile is enormous. So many insecurities spring up when people decide to act on something. Such things as: am I good enough to do this? What will people think of me? I don't deserve this, and so on.

I am really happy for your sister and the many other people who just push every day to get up, not feel sorry for themselves and make it work. Thank you for the encouraging words.


I've got plenty smarts, but how about some of that perseverance. I'd love some more of that. I do great work but very sporadically.


>My little 5'3" sister running around bossing grown men like it was nothing.

There's nothing strange or unusual about that.


Great story expect the last part. Where you're sort of implying that all smart people are coders and others that do other types of jobs aren't.

I met a lot of people that were a lot smarter than most "startup developers" and it didn't require them to sit in front of a computer most of the day.


I read it as, one can be smart, but the drive and perseverance to pursue your dreams and desires are really a major key to achieving one's goals.


The major key. Hard work and perseverance can make up for just about any deficit in natural ability, but it doesn't work the other way around.


Eh, this'll end up being a metaphysical debate, but I think that's much too strong.

If someone is of average or higher natural ability, yes, hard work and perseverance will be the biggest determinant of outcome. But someone who's genuinely pretty dumb, wholly socially incompetent, or exceptionally disabled or ill will have massive difficulties being successful regardless of their perseverance.

Which isn't to say that hard work is useless to the people on the lower end of the spectrum: far from it, a stupid hard-worker not only can find themselves with a decent enough job but will usually be able to keep it. It's just they lack the ability to set themselves up for good opportunities like that and to limit downside risk from one-off events. Luck of the draw will end up dominating outcomes.

(Obviously, most people who comment on internet forums, particularly a specialized forum like HN, are not only likely to be average or above but also to have extremely limited contact with people significantly below the mean, so if you're reading this, your life outcomes probably are determined by your own work ethic. On that note, cheers to a productive Sunday!)


Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.


Sometimes also known as grit:http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/books/review/how-childr...


I'm not certain he meant to imply a divide between smart people and non-coders, I think he was referencing Mohammed's comment that people here were very smart people and that he felt out of place in them. To which the parent of your comment responded that it's okay to not be the smartest person, as long as you have perseverance.


It's not easy to tell how smart someone is by meeting them. That tends to bias you towards social abilities. IQ tests help to level the field by testing abilities that we can't easily observe just by knowing someone. Not that IQ tests are accurate at all either. But I just mean to say that feeling that someone is smart can just mean they're smart at appearing smart and may not have the same abilities at a broad range of thinking skills as someone with a high IQ.


I had a cab driver a couple of weeks ago. We got talking, and I said I am a developer. He said he knew some c#. He seemed slow but I humoured him - asked how he got into it. He then started talking about machine code programming on the c64 and showed an encyclopedic knowledge of the sprite system, the way to build event loops and different approaches to laying out large programs.


Cab drivers are really some of the most interesting people. I've spoken to a cab driver that claimed to have been a refugee from a country in Africa- told me how he missed how brightly the stars shone in comparison with the light pollution of the American city. He was a reporter that got in trouble with his government and had to get out.


Selection effect. You have much less occasions to chitchat with firemen, street cleaners, or farmers than taxi drivers.


That's pretty awesome! Reminds me of a conversation I had with my grandfather last year - he told me did a few years of programming on IBM mainframes with punch cards in his 20s, before switching and becoming an accountant.


Some people with high IQ are smart enough to say "I want to be a cab driver", and do it. They probably are happier in their jobs, than many others who just do whatever "is expected" of them.


Yes, and when what's expected is starting a start-up, you get HN crowd, where someone who never tried like me often feels that starting a start-up is really overrated here. For instance, I wouldn't bet a lot on Larry Page or Mark Zuckerberg being much happier in their lives than your average immigrant taxi driver.


Relevant anecdote: I used to do some programming for my job, and have an incredible vocabulary and am fluent in Chinese; I'm extremely "smart". But, sbout a year and a half ago, I was in a terrible motorcycle accident in which I was knocked off by an SUV and went into a coma, suffering a massive amount of neural damage to various areas all around my brain. Unfortunately, because of this brain damage, it is now incredibly difficult for me to learn some new things (specifically the logistical complexities involved in programming or advanced math/physics, for example). Also, my short-term memory is now awful. Many a time, in recent months, I've figured out how to do some kind of little software trick on my PC or phone, but then I'll forget how I did it, and have to spend hours re-learning it. Am I not "smart" anymore? Conclusion: sometimes how you appear and the things you say can't completely represent one's capabilities. "Smart" is a very broad, and possibly ambiguous term.


Side note: have you tried memory systems like Anki (spaced repetition)? As I've gotten older, it's been a godsend: my ability to pick up memory on the fly is shot, but Anki helps a lot. You're in a different, unfortunate situation, but it's worth a shot.


Ha! That's actually how I feel all the time. Learning something new is hard. If I don't use it I start to forget it. I do have two degrees: Engineering and computer science. I always thoguht this was normal. Maybe I'm stupid and never realized it? Iwonder...


I was complementing everyone here when I used the word 'smart', not necessarily in terms of IQ level, but learned a great deal from them as I have been reading relevant startup threads on HN for the past year.

I agree. I consider some of the inmates I deal with day to day very smart when you want to understand their world, and they will be more successful than anyone else when the game is being played on their turf. Sadly, they have other "distractions".


huh? The story ends with her succeeding at being a cop, not a developer.


"My name is Mohamed, and I am a jail guard!"

G'day, Mohamed don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job. You are much, much more than that. You work (and survive) in a Jail? That now makes you 10x better than most nerds on HN in understanding and handling people. Scan HN and the general press and you can see how badly Startups and their users are hurt by this and you'll realise this is a desirable skill. Start from there.


> That now makes you 10x better than most nerds on HN in understanding and handling people

At the risk of making your point for you, as one of the "nerds on HN" I would just like to tell you to take your sweeping statements and fuck off. Or have you forgotten you're a member of this site as well, nerd.


The core of your rebuttal was sound, but both you and GP were pretty rude.


Does being Irish/Scot earn me a little leeway? That is probably the minimum amount of swearing I'm allowed per sentence.


Hah, I think if you put /scot at the end of your sentence, I wouldn't have thought twice.

The internet and tone... :)


Hey bootload, you are right. I AM more than my job. I just like to throw that in there once in a while. The mistake is people reading and taking this literally, as if I can't do anything else or my numerous life experiences don't amount to anything when starting a Startup.


>G'day, Mohamed don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job.

Why not? A jail guard sounds very, very badass.


I'd think twice before denying his pull request. He'd crush me like a tin can!


This made me giggle like a little girl though.


~"Don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job, just know that your job makes you better than these other people with a different job"


> ~"Don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job, just know that your job makes you better

>> in understanding and handling people

> than these other people with a different job"

you can't ignore the middle, as that is the defining part of his sentence. every sentence is hypocrisy if you remove important parts


> ~"You can't ignore the middle, every sentence is hypocrisy."


Don't define yourself by your job, but recognize the unique skills it gave you and use them to your advantage.


Yes!


This is related with English language itself (and most languages as far as I know). For example if you say that in Italian doesn't make sense:

Io sono architetto. // I am an architect

You must say:

Io faccio l'architetto. // I make the architect (job)

Disclaimer: I'm not a linguist neither an Italian native. More accurate comments are welcome.


You are wrong. Both "sono architetto" and "sono un architetto" are valid italian and actually very common. Also the verb closest to fare is to do not to make. Source: I'm italian.

Y'all are philosophising too much about the copula (a rather common philosopher's pasttime).


Welcome, Mohamed..

A little word of advice that I hope will save you a lot of time and frustration:

- Don't wait to complete your training to start your project. Start with the knowledge you have and tweak it over time. If you have no knowledge right now, start by sketching in English. It seems stupid but just the fact of abstracting human needs that seem obvious to us and formalizing them into logical steps will help you tremendously.

- Write code about random stuff you think about. It will be ugly and you'll laugh at it, but you will be lightyears ahead than if you wait when you finish your training to start writing code. It doesn't need to be great, awesomely useful or something.

- Compare yourself with yourself. "..wrote 3,000 lines of Python in a day to build a Segway" made me hate myself. Fight that urge. I know I still am. Reading biographies of great people, seeing what people are actually doing and building makes me feel miserable, incompetent and good at nothing.

- Understand that the points above are for you just in part, they are mainly for myself :)

Here's something to make you feel less inadequate:

http://carlcheo.com/fascinating-posts-from-tech-founders-who...

Work to get better. When the itch presents itself, you'll have the skills to scratch it.

Good luck.


> Reading biographies of great people, seeing what people are actually doing and building makes me feel miserable, incompetent and good at nothing.

Wow, that's something I totally have as well. At the same time, I want to be (and am, many times) inspired by other people who are already more successful than me. After all, they did struggle, maybe with other things, but their success proves that it is possible to reach it / to achieve something awesome.

The struggle with a feeling of worthlessness is such a mystery. Why do I have it? Why so many people in general? What is the cause, what can be done? I try many things, fall flat on my nose, and then try to get up again. Sometimes, it's a hellish nightmare.


Thank you Jugurtha.


Before you do this, consider the following question: would you rather spend your time learning to build the Uber app, or learning the skills to build Uber (the company)? Those are two truly different skill sets, and the latter is far more rare and valuable. The ability to raise money, build teams for a variety of functions, budget, and execute on an audacious vision is far outside the realm of most software engineers.

Unless coding is truly your passion, hire someone or find a technical co-founder. Spend your time learning how to plan and build stable, scalable businesses and teams. Your goal should be to build an organization that can employ all of the software engineers necessary to carry out the vision for your business - not to be able to write all of the code yourself.


Problem is that people who think they can build the next Uber are a dime a dozen and aren't even worth that. Keep in mind that Travis Kalanick and Garrett Camp (Uber cofounders) are both engineers.

It's good to think about the different skill sets though and decide which to focus on.


In my opinion, learning the skills to build "Uber the company" will get you nowhere without a compelling product first, whereas if you have a compelling product you can be a complete idiot when it comes to business and still have a chance to learn and make something out of it.

By all means don't focus solely on development if your goal is to build a startup, and in particular be aware you need to attract users once you launch; but don't focus on learning the intricacies of raising money or leading a team without a product either.


If you have business skills, you can always find/team up with people that have a compelling product, or team up with others others to bring your compelling product to life through code while you build the business. In this case, it appears that OP has an idea and wants to build the product himself, starting from scratch with no coding knowledge. I am saying that he should team up with someone to accomplish the actual coding, and he should focus on the business.

BTW, I am saying all of this as a fairly accomplished software engineer that has grown to understand that business skills are far more important than the programming skills I have spent nearly 20 years working on. I find myself agreeing more and more with this statement from Chris Sacca, who is a billionaire that knows a thing or two about successful tech startups [1]:

"...most of the value is created by the execution, not the idea itself."

[1] http://lowercasecapital.com/prospecting/


IMO, this is a little bit of a false debate that's been kicked around for years. For instance, in your first paragraph, you could just as easily switch business skill and product (and many people do).

Also, business and product are intimately related. Building, say, the tech for a SaaS business doesn't mean you've built a good product. Business skill can help here. As developers who can build, I think we sometimes emphasize the tech (product) from a functional perspective vs. from a business one.

In short, it can be very difficult to create a compelling product without solid business thinking. And, even with a compelling product, it can be difficult still to gain any traction. My experience has been that both skillsets are needed equally.


By learning to code, my desire is to get to a stage where: a. I can converse with tech people who have been at this their whole live, b. gain the proficiency to build the mvp, c. become a team member with attributable skill set when company is formed, etc. Hiring someone is inevitable down the line, but I need to create the map for him/her to paint first.

I agree about the different skill sets. I am working on getting a mentor who I can learn from when it comes to all of the latter stuff you've mentioned.


I did this "the long way" over the last 8 years taking it as a marathon more than a sprint. In my mid-30s I learned to program, studied business and economics, and switched careers from being a 3d animator to a software consultant. Continued studies on technology, business and marketing - inspired by Paul Graham and subsequently HN - via a series of amazing "virtual mentors" over the last several years (Amy Hoy, Brennan Dunn, Nathan Barry, Patrick Mackenzie).

This combined experience and study has lead to owning a successfully bootstrapped business. We don't have investors, we have a wonderful audience, and we just hired employee #1.

Stack those bricks! Every one counts.


As someone who can already build the app, how do I get the skills to build Uber the company?


By doing and creating value. The premise of starting a company is simple, solve a problem that ideally you and others have which in return creates value enough that they'll pay for it. It's a million times easier said than done, and execution is the most valuable part of any idea because it's also the riskiest and most difficult part. Social apps have slightly different economics but the premise is the same.


Great distinction that is often overlooked. Could you / anyone elaborate on the key skills required in building a company? (aside from the oft-mentioned virtues of hard work, focus, and perseverance)


There are just a few general things:

1. The ability to curate a clear vision for the company and its path to success;

2. The ability to take that vision and turn it into an an actionable, real-world plan, with clearly defined roles for any staff necessary to execute it; and

3. The ability to sell the company's vision to others - investors, employees and customers/users.


That timeline would be doable, but Spring 2019 wouldn't be bad to shoot for either. Here is an alternate 3.5 year plan:

- Year 1: Learn to code full time. Later in the year, start applying for jobs as a developer.

- Year 2: Get a job as a full stack dev. Devote nights and weekends to improving your development skills as much as possible.

- Year 3: Get a cofounder, and work nights and weekends on your project.

- Year 4: Go full time, and work for 6 months to launch the product and get enough traction to do YC.

The problem is that if you don't spend any time actually working as a developer, you'll be limited to only doing very simple projects. And also, it's much more likely to work if you can find a cofounder and work with them part time for a while before going full time.

As someone else already said, you'll also need the skills required to create a good product and build a good company, both of which are entirely different.


Thank you Alex. This is very good. Two years may not be enough as I am starting from scratch, so I may just consider this.


This plan is very similar to my current path. I ended up taking a couple extra years on "Year 2" to really hone my skills.


All the best. My advice to you would be to try and think how you can provide real value to people (which rules out 90% of "startups" in Silicon Valley) and make a positive change in their lives.

This does not mean you have to solve world hunger, it can be as simple as having identified a loophole which allows for corruption in jails and you use technology to close that loophole.


Or fix that exploitative phone call system in jails.


The startup Pigeonly, made by a guy who spent a few years in prison, has exactly that purpose: lower the cost of communications between inmates and their families.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3037785/innovation-agents/how-an-...

https://www.telepigeon.com/


Also the canteen they order, way overpriced. There are numerous inefficiencies in the prison system, and Pigeonly seems like they picked one area, phones, to attack first.


Maybe there's some area for profit involving all the inmates doing useful desk jobs.


I hope your MVP will be catering to prison guard or prison management. You probably got some unique insights there that few developers have.


Not to mention the prison industry is overdue for some serious upsets.


Hey Mohamed! I'm really glad you're making a startup. When I started my first startup, I had no idea how to make "mywebsite.com" link up to my actual website - the whole process was a mystery to me. It was like wandering around in a dark room and bumping into the furniture and walls.

I got the business started with just a simple Bootstrap template and PHP form, and it worked great! After around 6 months of learning new things every day through the Internet, chat rooms, etc, all in an effort to improve the website, I felt like one of those days I just found the light switch, and the whole room was illuminated.

Nowadays I can work on my own schedule on coding projects that I truly enjoy doing. Two years ago, I didn't even know what I was capable of building. There were certainly those days where it all feels a bit overwhelming, but like another great commenter pointed out here, perseverance is key.


Thank you for the encouraging words.


Good luck with your endeavors! Regarding learning to code, I'll just reiterate what others have said that Python is an excellent language to learn with (that said, it's not ideal for everything, but it is a great learner's language).

Also, if you haven't already, I'd suggest switching to Linux or OSX and get used to working on the command line. Most developers in the start-up scene will be working on OSX or Linux, and learning how to use the command line will benefit you enormously.


Hey Mohamed, My name is Kabir Narain. I started programming in Jan 2014 and recently launched my first app (www.almostfamous.club). Start by making simple websites or apps for the phone that you use. Its daunting at first but in around one year you should be feeling pretty confident of yourself. My email is 1119231@gmail.com Mail me if you need any assistance. Good luck!

PS- i did not go to college or attend any programming courses so believe me, you CAN do it! (i was training as a sea navigator on board merchant ships before that)


Welcome Mohamed.

"This place is overwhelmingly full of smart people, and I sometimes feel out of place!"

Don't feel out of place. You may just be suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

The smartest people for me are those who can drop all pretensions and learn as much as they can. You're well on your way.


The Dunning-Kruger effect is grossly overestimating one's own skill. I think that's the opposite of what you meant.


They probably meant Impostor syndrome[0] instead.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome


I have thought about and battled with impostor syndrome a LOT! So much so that I wrote this incredibly long article about it. I hope it's useful.

http://www.geekmindfitness.com/mindfulness/how-mindfulness-m...


I heard about this effect before....great read. I am absorbing as much as I can!


Intelligence doesn't matter as much as you think:

http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html

Comparing yourself to others is always a losing game. Compare yourself to where you were when you started this journey, and you'll see that you've come pretty far.

Get ready for the rollercoaster (emotionally) ride, and good luck!


Sadly money appears to matter though:

http://qz.com/455109/entrepreneurs-dont-have-a-special-gene-...

However, doesn't mean you can't simply ignore that and just go for it.


You've given yourself two years -- that's good, realistic. May I ask what level of knowledge skill in what areas you're aiming for by fall of 2017, and how much time you plan to devote per, say week, for the exercise?

Also, good luck. If you need to be pointed in the right direction, I'm sure a lot of people here (including myself) would be happy to do so during this period.


I urge you to read this article before you decide to take the entrepreneurial plunge http://qz.com/455109/entrepreneurs-dont-have-a-special-gene-...


This is very interesting. I don't have the pedigree mentioned in the article that, according to the article, leads one to Startup success. So, should I just give up or keep going?


Just read your own quote earlier in this thread:

"By learning to code, my desire is to get to a stage where: a. I can converse with tech people who have been at this their whole live, b. gain the proficiency to build the mvp, c. become a team member with attributable skill set when company is formed, etc. Hiring someone is inevitable down the line, but I need to create the map for him/her to paint first."

Ignore that asinine article. Don't judge your success based on whether you started a startup or not. Base it on what you wrote above: Learning to code, having technical conversations, and being a better person than you ever thought possible.


How about working as an employed programmer first - learn from colleagues - and then after three years reconsider founding a company.

I mean sorry, but if you worked so far as a jail guard then you probably don't have enough experience for you ambitious dreams yet.

Honestly though ... this text seems so generical and naive that I have trouble believing its authenticity ...


I don't think the experience is necessary. He wants to found a company not be an excellent engineer. That means as long as he can get a prototype out, it doesn't matter if it's all spaghetti code. It's startup code and it will be shitty. He can then hopefully raise money and hire people with at least a few years experience to build things out properly (hopefully).

I've seen successful startups started by people who could barely code or taught themselves to code to build the business just like the OP is describing. Sure, the code is shitty and there's no architecture, but once you're making money, who cares? This explains the shitty code found at most startups, but if it's temporary and a way to get somewhere, I definitely see its benefits. If this was a proper system, meant to live on for years, that's different. Hopefully the OP will have enough wisdom to realize when it's time to switch between the two mindsets. Most startup CEOs don't (even if they started out like the OP because they quickly get disconnected from engineering), and that's the real problem, IMO, but by then you've already started a company and raised money.


Very important point here, and often overlooked. Real world runs on shitty code, people like Zuckerberg didn't spend his early facebook days discussing on message boards what is the best javascript framework or the best way to build testable code; he shipped, put it out there and attracted people. It was most likely spaghetti code as Zuckerberg did not have any prior professional experience as an engineer, but it worked.


he worked in a prison you funny person ... what qualifies him to found tech company? right - nothing!

and spaghetti code that turns useful requires even more experience to maintain.


> what qualifies him to found tech company?

What qualifies a programmer (even a good programmer) to found a tech company? Starting any company requires so many more skills than just programming knowledge, it becomes very unlikely that a random programmer is qualified. In fact, many programmers I know are the least qualified people I can think of to found a company -- they lack the ability or desire to sell an idea, manage a team, or motivate people. If you think "I'm a good programmer, and that makes me qualified to run a company," you'll be disabused you of that notion very quickly. It may turn out that you have the qualifications, but it won't have anything to do with your coding ability.

The truth is, there are many boxes you need to check, and technical knowledge is just one of them. It's very rare that a single individual can check all those boxes. That's why VCs generally prefer companies founded by multiple people with complementary skill sets.

That's also why the OP should seriously consider finding a technical co-founder. He may be qualified to found a tech company (perhaps he can manage people, sell an idea, or use his prior experience to enter an underserved market), but it's unlikely he's qualified to found a tech company alone.


What qualified Steve Jobs to start a tech company? Right - nothing!

What qualifies anyone who is not technical to start a tech company?

Perhaps you should ask the non-technical founders of almost every single successful tech startup. Maybe some will comment right here as there are so many ...


I think you missed the part where I said I am on a journey to learn so I can be at a stage to start and build a Startup. No one comes out of their mother's you know what knowing everything they need to know. Thank you for the feedback though.


Hi Mohamed , all of the people here given you great advice on the language to learn and tools to use. I think this will be helpful for you https://github.com/ripienaar/free-for-dev


Amazing. I've added this to my collection of web dev favourites. Thank you.


Hey Mohamed.

I am interested in how someone who is not an engineer/investor/etc even came to hear about Hacker News?


I am not Mohamed, but about 5 years ago i also was a police officer in the Middle East.My hobby always was Programming and hacking from age of 13 so i have visited Hackernews on a daily basis until i quit my job and started to work as a Web developer for 1/4 of an average pay rate.

Fast forward 5 years and i am in a much better place now and i never look back.

I never did this before because i always thought that all the people that work in IT are way smarter than me and have all sort of degrees that i could not handle. Thank you HN :)


Not the person you asked, but I can relate: I worked in law enforcement for 14 years, many of those as a jail officer. I've been a "hardware hacker" since I was a kid, and it's more or less what I do for a living right now, but I don't have any formal education in it so it's been nearly impossible to find a really great job in the field. I came across Hacker News many years ago on one of the other tech sites I frequent (probably OS News).

I'm actually considering going back to law enforcement (again, in the jail) as it's steady employment with great benefits, and plenty of time off to work on side projects.


He seems interested in startups. Google would have redirected him here. Beside that, popular startup sites often quote HN in articles.


If I were to guess - reading news lead to getting interested about startups, and reading about those led him to YC and HN.

But there's an alternative way people from various fields may end up here - HN discussions are sometimes top results when googling for some niche, not necessarily tech-related topics.


This is not in any way meant to sound snarky, but I don't live under a rock. Hacker News will come to you or you will go to it when you question the trajectory of your life.


Your reply reminded me of the Mohammed/Mountain quote[1] :-)

All the best to you.

[1] "If Mohammed will not go to the mountain, the mountain must come to..."


Nice. I didn't know about this quote.


Dear Mohamed,

do you think you'll be able to use your specific insight into the prison system as a basis for your idea? I bet there are many problems waiting to be solved.

Prisons are big money, especially in the US.

Greetings and all the best for your journey to YC


He is already profiting from the US prison system. Also I would not recommend tangling with prison guard unions for his first project, tackle something unrelated and revisit it when more experienced.


Profiting from the system by being employed there? That's not what I had in mind.

There are many opportunities outside of prison guard unions for innovation regarding the overall institution/process of incarceration in America.

Domain expertise will only be built by tackling a problem in that domain. How could one possibly decide against pursuing a topic without trying it at all?

Tough, seemingly entrenched markets often prove to be the most interesting: SpaceX, Uber etc


Hi Mohamed

Your goals are admirable, and I think you're on the right path. Do you have some product or company idea in mind already?

The one piece of advice I'd like to give you is, there's no need to rush. There will be plenty more YC intakes, and you'll have tons of good ideas - learning to execute on them by trying a bunch of different stuff is the best way to get there, and to do that you need to give yourself time to learn.


Hi atroyn,

Thank for your feedback. I have two ideas in mind. One is about a process I would like to streamline using technology at my current job, and the other one deals with ESL and learning a new language. Many of the ESL or learn a language methods out there are so boring, and I think I have a way to make it less boring and actually learn something. I had this problem when I wanted to learn French. You can sit there and repeat all the French words until the cows come home, but it will be no use to you when you want to converse in real life situations. The idea is about learning a new language in a way that is engaging, not learning from a CD and tucked away in your bedroom.


> This place is overwhelmingly full of smart people, and I sometimes feel out of place!

Rule 1: Don't confuse intelligence with experience.

Technological and critical thinking skills can be learned by everyone given enough time and effort. A lot of people dismiss any possibility of becoming technically minded by saying "only smart people can do that", even though they have the potential to gain the same skills.


Mohamed here....

Wow. Seriously? I wrote this after coming back from work, and went off to sleep (it was around 2AM). I don't know what to say, but thank you to all for taking the time to respond and upvoting this thread. I have never expected this to happen. I will respond to each commentor who specifically asked a direct question as time allows, but for now, I will jot down more about me and why I have the career that I have.

To start, I earned my BSc in Public Health and Safety. After few years in the field, I became disgruntled with my career choice and felt miserable going to work each day. I felt trapped in a rat race full of fake smiles. I had to decide that I will either do this for 30 or so years and retire, or just leave. Well, the decision was made for me and I was fired...ahahah. I wish they could also fire my student debt. The annoyance I felt working in such environment where I was not being challenged enough and not learning much was oozing from every pore on my body, and managers could smell it.

Fast forward, I went off to Africa for vacation and the basic life necessities we enjoy every day such as clean water, electricity and food safety were non-existent. Everything in many parts of Africa are run by NGO's. There were rules that prohibit people from planting their own food! The NGO's want to supply you the food from their end. Being self sufficient is not part of the game for these NGO's. Anyways, I could go on forever about the dire situations in Africa and the corruption from within the nation and from outside agencies, but it will be too long for one post.

Fast forward some more, and I came back home. No job. No savings. My cousin told me to apply for a corrections job. I got it. And guess what? I love it. I use my natural verbal judo skills and empathy to get the job done. It is scary, but ultimately, you either get yourself in hot water or stay out of the hot water as a jail guard. I chose the latter. Long story short, I really enjoy my job and there are multiple ideas and what if's I come up with when I am there. I was always around entrepreneurs. The best entrepreneur I know of personally is my mother. I learned from her the idea that create something people want. In her case, it was order what people want. I always wondered why my mother would order only ladies clothing and jewelry and perfume for women only. Why not men? Because my mother understood these women and their inherent need to change clothes all the time, and she satisfied this by purchasing everything they needed as a wholesale from Middle East. She never bought even once what men want. She stuck to her believe and made a lot of money doing it by satisfying her core customers: housewives. I think we can all learn from people in our lives that made a silent contribution to push you to entrepreneurship, and for me, it was my mother.

I have declared this little blurb last night because I can't stand being the idea guy anymore. I have countless ideas, but I understand the need to learn and become a sufficient partner when I do find a co-founder. The idea I will work on with the online coding bootcamp is from my workplace. I would like to streamline something so redundant that I do every day using technology. There are multiple things I could work on, but I have to start from somewhere first. Off to work for now, again, I will respond to direct questions from certain commentors. Again, thank you.


Awesome Mohamed! Start small, and use the free resources - try the Learn the Hard Way series. Python is a great language to start with, JavaScript is a little more difficult but you can do more things. Attend meetups too, they'll inspire you and it's nice to be able to speak to people in real life about this stuff.


Thank you sir. I have recently downloaded the online version of Zed Shaw's Learn Python the Hard Way ebook with accompanying lessons. Taking this along with Udacity's Intro to Comp Science course which uses Python. Basic JS under my belt from team treehouse and udemy course.


I'd like to say that everything about coding is not startup. There is a life for code outside startups.


This is an awesome post & I'm excited to see the support from HN.

I like how you're giving yourself a solid goal and plenty of time to achieve it.

Quick question - you mention that you'd like to build an MVP yourself, do you know what product you'd like to build or what market you're interested in serving?


Hi ramykhuffash,

I've just started learning the core web dev fundamentals - HTML, CSS, JAVASCRIPT. I am also taking a Ruby course on Udemy, and as mentioned, starting The Firehose Project in September. Two ideas so far: a. idea from my job (jail) b. ESL idea I always had even before starting the career as a jail guard.

Things change so fast, so I will see what happens when one of these ideas makes contact with customers.


Congratulations! The journey is long and challenging but totally worth it. Approach the startup world with the intellectual curiosity of a visitor in a foreign country. There are some great ways to learn how to code. Instead, I've found it beneficial to Learn How to Do X to Accomplish Y. There are numerous programming languages, APIs, platforms, devices, technologies, methodologies, etc. Focus on the X that helps you do Y. Udacity, Khan Academy, Coursera, and W3Schools.com offer a great start (some are free) for programming. A good start is learning front end development: HTML, Bootsrap. CSS, Javascript.

Find some like-minded individuals. You can join tech meetups, Google Developer groups, etc. Good luck on your journey my friend! Keep building!


MS Access - Learn it first!

Why?

The first few reasons that come to mind:

1) To quote a friend of mine, “If a 50 year old boilermaker can work it out, then anyone can.”

2) MS Access will more than likely be installed on your computer at work.

3) Almost all "startup" type programs will need databasing of some sort.

4) It has macros and modules (VBA - Visual Basic for Applications)

5) As you start to learn Visual Basic for Application you can use this to potentially automate things at work as it available across Word and Excel.

Read these to get started:

Database basics [1]

This article provides a brief overview of databases -- what they are, why you might want to use one, and what the different parts of a database do.

Database design basics [2]

A properly designed database provides you with access to up-to-date, accurate information.

Learn the structure of an Access database [3]

Becoming familiar with the tables, forms, queries, and other objects in a database can make it easier to perform a wide variety of tasks, such as entering data into a form, adding or removing tables, finding and replacing data, and running queries.

[1] https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Database-basics-2C5...

[2] https://support.office.com/en-gb/article/Database-design-bas...

[3] https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Learn-the-structure...


This is... some pretty weird advice. Learn MS Access first? Really?

First, it's just a database system coupled with macros. That's not the most important thing you'll want to learn if you want to build a startup. The frontend and/or backend logic are the most interesting, not "macros" to run on your database.

Then, VBA is pretty horrible for a beginner and he's probably going to want to deploy his service at some point (and MS solutions are not exactly the easiest to deploy for a beginner)


> This is... some pretty weird advice. Learn MS Access first? Really?

Yes, really.

He needs to learn the fundamentals. Read my post again and see the points I made.

> Then, VBA is pretty horrible for a beginner and he's probably going to want to deploy his service at some point (and MS solutions are not exactly the easiest to deploy for a beginner)

I've was able to deploy an MS Access database on Sharepoint in about 5 minutes.


This is terrible advice! Please learn JavaScript, HTML and CSS first! I know that in some places front end is considered not as important as backend - it can be simpler but learning the basics here will allow you to create prototypes for your ideas. Best of luck - let us know how you are doing in 6 months :-)


I agree with andy_ppp on the combo html/javascript/css. There are plenty of places to experiment online with this stack, and it can be used for both back-end and front-end. And with node-webkit or similar is can also be used for desktop applications. And javascript is flexible enough that you can use different programming paradigm, depending on your own preferences.


I can't tell if serious or the best troll I've seen in a while.

To the OP, don't do this. This is the equivalent of letting a White Van Man[1] teach you how to drive. Sure they can get you from A to B, and yeah they might even get paid for doing it. But you'll pick up so many bad habits that any other driver you have to work with will think you're an idiot and completely distrust you.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_man


Responding to myself as there are quite a few comments to respond to:

I knew that I would get this response on HN, which is why I knew I needed to post it as no one else would.

Don’t worry about the technology, learn how to code. Actually learn how to develop software and the fundamentals of follow control: IF ELSE WHILE FOR etc…

When I studied Software Engineering, our lecturer told us “Only 10% of the software development is coding.” I was initially shocked with that statement, but when you take into account requirements analysis, design, testing, support etc… it is about right. But a lot of programmers "do this on the fly", so they don't objectively think about it.

I would actually also recommend learning C# using Visual Studio Community as well, also learn Javascript and SQL. But not as your first languages.

VBA in MS Access is not as slick as Visual Basic 6 was, I will agree on that.

No, I’m not a Microsoft shill. I’ve just been around long enough and have worked with many different languages, stacks and within many different industries.

I’m just not a very social person (still not) and have kept a very small attributable presence on the internet. I was advised that I needed to be a bit more visible now because of my book (40in40book.com), but most of my software development work is under nicknames or in private industry and not publically attributable to me. :)

Note: I know the wordpress site for my book is not the best, but I have other more important things to spend my time and money on.


... Don't do this.


> ... Don't do this.

Care to elaborate further?


Take this posters advice and do _exactly_ the opposite. Don't start with with relying on clicky drag things. Take the time to become comfortable with command line. Learn real database concepts. I recommend looking at some books and playing around with Sqlite and staying far far far away from MS Access unless you want to work in corporate accounting or something.


The first professional experience that I got in software development involved maintaining a rickety old Access database for the service department I was in. I added a bunch of stuff to it and learned quite a lot. It's not very sexy at all but it did get me noticed.


If the other comment isn't enough, I say -1 to Access too. Please head straight to real technologies that will allow you to make things, e.g. HTML/CSS/JS, and whatever back-end you like (PHP, Java, Node...).


> Please head straight to real technologies that will allow you to make things

A BASIC language in any RAD would serve him best to LEARN.

Flow control is a fundamental, this can be learnt in any language.


Fair, in startups, we often embrace open source solutions. I myself, wouldn't want to bother with Microsoft, but many stake their careers on their technologies. It works.

There is a whole network of people who with jobs using Microsoft tools. It's perfectly justifiable.


Sure. But this guy wants to learn coding and do startups. Not make spreadsheets for the company.


Mohamed - I would recommend learning about basic software engineering practices but NOT building your own app. It takes years to become good enough to do that successfully. Instead, learn how to hire and manage developers, especially overseas developers on upwork.com (formerly odesk), how to share equity (read Slicing Pie book) and most of all how to design the user experience, and market yourself to investors (create an online portal for investors that works on mobile and desktop browsers.) Use invisionapp or something similar to show your app to others, and iterate THAT. Your first customers are actually investors and developers!


Thank you. This is good. I will definitely take this into consideration.


Hi Mohamed, Good luck for your journey. It would be really exciting to know more about your journey, I hope you will have time to maintain blog or post more here :)

Again, if you need any tech help, feel free to ping me at @naveensky (twitter) or email in my profile :)

ATB


Thank you. I will tackle setting up a blog and writing my first blog post sometime this week. Thank you for the offer. I will be in touch.


From Mohamed to Mohamed, i own my iOS app and i can help you with anything iOS. i teach iOS and Swift to non-programmers and CS graduates. I'm not in the U.S. but if you ever need anything hit me up on Twitter @moubarak


Wow, Mohamed, this is great. I'm glad I stayed up late enough tonight to see your post. Please feel free to give me a shout via the email address in my profile - I'd be more than happy to kick around any ideas to help you get started.

What kind of computer do you use - Windows, Mac, Linux? I'd like to give you some suggestions for programming tools (mostly free, some you might pay for), but of course the details will depend on which OS you're using.

I second nailer's suggestion that you may want to start with Python for some of your initial learning. It's an easy language to get started with, but also very powerful. Even if you end up using another language later on, your Python skills will remain valuable - it's great for writing anything from little scripts up to large apps.

Ruby is also really nice, you wouldn't go wrong with that either. And of course you'll want to learn JavaScript eventually too, regardless of what else you do. You could start with any of these really, but Python is probably the easiest to begin with. What you really want to start out doing is to get the basic concepts of programming down - and these carry over from language to language.

One suggestion I'll make right away: in every language you work with, find and learn how to use a good debugger. For JavaScript, every browser has a nice built-in debugger. (I like the one in Chrome, but they are all pretty good.) For Python or Ruby it will depend to some degree on which OS you use.

And a good IDE with built-in syntax checking, autocomplete, and all that is really great to have.

Some people will tell you not to use IDEs and debuggers and things like that, as if it were a sign of weakness to use good tools. Or that if you follow Test Driven Development you should never need to use a debugger. Don't listen to them!

I see so many people asking questions on Stack Overflow that they could have answered for themselves in a few minutes if they only knew how to debug their code. Testing is important and you should learn all about it and do it, but debuggers are for more than just fixing bugs. They help you explore and learn how your code works, and what the APIs you're calling really do, in an interactive and visual way.

Here's a Stack Overflow post of mine from a couple of years ago with screenshots of a few Python debuggers:

http://stackoverflow.com/a/16474706/1202830

Don't worry if there's a lot of stuff in those screens; it will all make sense as you get into it.

You'll also want to get into version control sooner rather than later. Most people use Git these days, although Mercurial is very good too. I recommend avoiding the Git command line though, at least at first. You have enough to learn as it is without having to deal with that arcane system. But there are some nice visual interfaces to Git. I like SmartGit a lot and recommend it. It's free for noncommercial use. Or you may want to start with something even simpler like one of the free clients from GitHub.

Again, let me know what OS you're on and I'll make some specific suggestions for various kinds of tools.

p.s. Top of Hacker News on your first post! Not too shabby...


I am glad to have witnessed someone like you who's so generous of their time, and knowledge. Sir, thank you.

OS - Windows. Saving for a Macbook (too expensive). I am already on Udacity's Intro to Computer Science and Python is used to teach this course. Plus going through Learn Python the Hardway by Zed Shaw. Taking a Ruby course on Udemy.

IDE - I use Sublime Text for front-end development lessons (team treehouse, udemy), and Cloud9 for the Ruby course I am taking through Udemy.

So much to learn! What is your email?


You have experience with Jails and guarding things? I would ask you to figure out some type of problem that requires the protection of some type of asset.


Welcome! With your background you might be interested in the YC startup Pigeon.ly. Maybe you could apply to work/intern for them to gain experience. http://blog.ycombinator.com/pigeon-dot-ly-yc-w15-a-startup-f...


EDIT......

As suggested, here it is....

Blog at FAVORTEXT.com. I've used Wordpress to generate this blog. It looks weird and things are out of place, but I will tackle this bit by bit as time goes on. This is where I will jot down my journey on learning coding, business development and going from an idea to an MVP prototype.

I wish everyone here who took the time to respond a glorious and wonderful life.


I would take these two free classes: 1.) http://startupclass.samaltman.com/ 2.) https://www.coursera.org/course/startup


Hi trg2,

I am already taking No. 1, and will now add No. 2 to my favorites. Thank you.


Hey Mohamed!

I doing a coding challenge where I'm building 6 apps in 60 days. Take it one day at a time. The smartest person in the a game isn't always the person who ends up winning. The person who doesn't give up usually wins. You should check out codeschool.com. They have great courses.


Thank you. I'm on Team Treehouse at the moment for Web Dev track. I will check out codeschool too.


Hello Mohamed. I'd be very interested to hear about your journey starting today, whatever you end up doing, whether you persevere (what I hope) or not, no matter.

Would you start a blog someplace and post a link here so we can be part of your adventure?


Do you already have a business idea or two floating around in your head? Just curious.


I agree. HN is really unique in the web landscape. A lot of smart and nice people here. It's a great community that inspired you to take that challenge and that's amazing. Good luck.


Awesome man!! Your humility just inspires me. Ping me (@vjdhama) if you need any kind of help with coding or any aspect of learning for that matter.

I'd be more than happy to lend out a hand.


I might have to take you up on that offer myself. ;-)


Thank you friend. I will get in touch.


maybe your MVP will actually matter to lots of people and become useful for humanity since you are working for this specific sector that innovation is rare.


Awesome. If you ever wanna chat about coding or so. discuss geeky stuff. I'm always idling on IRC (freenode) on the nickname `arianvp`.


Always extending a helping hand :) Muhammed: arianvp serious chief geek, and a very helpful/resourceful one!


Thank you arianvanp. I will get in touch.


Good luck dude. I am sure you will rock. Independent of the outcome, your journey is going to be glorious!!


Dude!! You are an awesome human being!


:)


how do you know?


Experience.


Eid Mubarek Mohamed. Reach out if I can help with anything product/tech related :)


Eid Mubarek to you too. I am grateful for the offer and will reach out to you when I get my thoughts together!


Please create a blog and share your progress with outer world. It can help you alot!


Join Github.com, show up, create something, dont tell; show.


Good luck Mohamed! There's nothing stopping you :)


This is medicine. Right here. When a total stranger believes in your dreams!


Hi Mohamed – what bootcamp are you joining?


Hi Darrell,

I am joining The Firehose Project on Sept. 21st, 2015.


Become an entrepreneur instead. You work in a jail, possibilities for content creation in such environments are endless.


My daughter and I were in the same position around 18 months ago. Neither of us knew any coding, but we wanted to do a startup. I have an mba and another professional degree and wanted to do a startup, so in theory, I could have tried to find a tech cofounder, but in the end, felt I would be in a better position if I learnt to code. As usual, paul graham says it better than I can, "anyone reasonably smart can probably get to an edge of programming (e.g. building mobile apps) in a year. Since a successful startup will consume at least 3-5 years of your life, a year's preparation would be a reasonable investment. Especially if you're also looking for a cofounder."

I would advise against the bootcamp (unless it's free?), you don't need one as long as you have one or two buddies who code, who can advise you on what to learn and help you when you get stuck, the response to your post suggests that you will have a lot of people who would be willing to help! It might be a good idea to put an email in your HN profile, make it easier for folks to get in touch.

We started with python (udacity cs101), lisp/scheme using the free 'simply scheme' book ( https://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/ss-toc2.html ) together with learning some of the tools like unix command-line/vim/git, then a course on web programming (udacity cs253), while she was doing college full-time, and I was working full-time.

We then started learning rails and working almost full-time on the startup around Oct 2014, and launched v1 of our web app in March 2015. Still working on getting more customers :). Don't be in too much of a rush to leave what you do now: I think it's definitely a good idea to have a 'day job' that pays the bills, while you work on little projects that are interesting to you and help you learn the various technologies, you may well find one of them turns into something a lot bigger.

We also applied to yc (unsuccessfully), which may have been good for us: I think the value of the advice they can give is high, but I now think it's kind of a waste of the opportunity if you're not raising money at the end. We are still figuring out 'what users want', and in hindsight, raising money would have been both difficult to resist, and a terrible idea for us at that time.

Most of the advice yc gives is 'open source', for example, paul graham's essays and books, jessica livingston's book, the yc startup school etc, so you don't need to get into yc to learn what they have to say.

I now think that the best time to go through yc would be after you've internalized what they teach, have made something users want, are growing, and now need funding so you can grow even faster. I think YC fulfilled a different role in the early days when it was so small, but is now so competitive, it's best to think of it a bit like hiring an investment bank when looking to IPO. In theory, they take a chunk of equity in exchange for good capital markets advice that will get you a much better valuation: as far as investment banks go, this is usually self-interested bullshit, but I think would be an accurate description of the value of yc.

Best of luck, and get in touch by email, it would be good to chat!


And by a weird coincidence, this is announced the following day: http://blog.ycombinator.com/yc-fellowship


This is great. Doing YC remotely sounds like a good plan for founders with children and a job that won't allow them to take time off.


You are amazing. Thank you for the advice. I'm mainly paying (loan..ughh) for structure really. Work is hectic sometimes, and I need that approach of having defined schedule I can commit to, or else, I am everywhere. I have read most if not all of the essays and free open sources from YC startup school. I was actually watching this - http://startupclass.samaltman.com/ - last night when I wrote my first comment.

My profile is updated with my email. I would love to chat.


the email is still not showing up, might be some weird caching thing..can you try emailing me instead, it's in my profile at https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ghufran_syed


Good luck Mohamed. With your perseverance I'm absolutely certain you'll make it!


Fingers crossed for you man, have a fun learning this is nice motivation.


All i can say is "Best of Luck"


Good luck man you can do it!


Good for you! Best of luck.


Good luck Mohamed.


Good luck!


> This place is overwhelmingly full of smart people, and I sometimes feel out of place!

You and I both- I commend you on your humility and look forward to your success.


Hellllloooo


Jail guard that must be interesting


Good luck my friend!


Hello. good luck. i will be watching you. haha


Good luck man, wish you all the best in this journey.




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