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Griggi: A Wi-Fi sharing ecosystem for affordable Internet everywhere (griggi.com)
66 points by pocha on June 25, 2015 | hide | past | web | favorite | 44 comments

Please consider contributing to something like Freifunk, instead: http://freifunk.net/en/

Similar technology (OpenWRT based firmware), easier to use, less privacy issues as it's not necessary to track your network usage. And completely free.

+1 on Freifunk. Setup is super easy:

1) order an Ubiquiti Nanostation LOCO M2 (amazing reach and super sensitive antenna),

2) sign-up with them for a VPN key. This will keep your visitors traffic tunneled through their VPN. IF there is any problem with content infringement, it ends up on their network.

3) Flash the box with their OpenWRT port and install the VPN key.

I setup my box last week and and it's been running well (http://monitor.berlin.freifunk.net/host.php?h=imaginator). Nice to see users dropping on and off. The firmware also includes support for the Freifunk mesh network. I'm looking forward to adding more nodes to the neighbourhood and growing the wifi coverage.

Action shots: http://imgur.com/a/q7nOk (Decided that martini bottle is a better solution than the tripod)

Get started at http://config.berlin.freifunk.net/wizard/routers (disclaimer: not clear if you should/must/can be in Berlin for this to work)

Friefunk actually is a pretty cool project. Any such initiative would typically require quite a bit of community involvement if it has to grow organically. How big is the Friefunk community btw ?

According to http://freifunk.net/en/how-to-join/find-your-nearest-communi... there are >15.000 access points, mainly in Germany.

Is there some international equivalent?

None of these services seem to address my number one concern with sharing my WiFi - I don't want my IP address associated with guest activities. The last thing I need are frivolous IP threats or cops busting down my door because someone did something illegal through my WiFi point (even if I am ultimately cleared of the charges).

What I'd really like to see is a service like this that pipes guests through a VPN instead of just setting them loose on the internet directly from my connection.

As a Hindu, I always flinch a bit whenever the word Karma is used in all these different contexts :)

Ha, next you claim it is not an alternative currency you can buy to unlock more features.

You can't buy it, but as you amass karma you do get access to additional HN features.

I would try to look for shareable AP each time but if my success rate is 1:10 I wouldn't bother look again. And I am ready to pay for it. So... what if I try the push model through telco - light up your AP sharing script in all the APs of this telco you get lets say 1 million shareable AP on Day-1. If an existing subscriber of this telco wants to use any of those APs, you add $1 to your monthly bill and access any of these 1 million APs anytime. If a Telco-Z subscriber wants to use this service pay $2 to the telco - $1 goes to Telco $1 goes to the one whose AP is being shared... everyone happy. Telco-Z jealous.

Now think of going abroad, telco has their roaming partners now they can have their wifi-roaming partners.


If its about giving the power to seek and provide the service to individuals - like what Uber did - "I can share what I have and I don't need a license for it". Quite known to everyone Uber has built its service base by offering lucrative benefits to its drivers/service providers - one of the many reasons it was able to scale. Effect of that is people are buying new cars at the rate Toyota Vios can't fulfill the demand. Grigi could be free to use for a year like Whatsapp. At the end of the year many who shared their service will have Karma GB in their pockets to trade...at this stage bitcoin gained its popularity.. people had something to trade.

When will it be more than a landing page? I'd like to see the installation steps and try it, but instead it just asks for my email address to receive updates.

Side-note: If you're sharing a new product/service, only having a landing page is a big negative in my view. Show me something that works. You should not have a "Get Started" button if you won't actually let me start using it...

To be fair, Griggi didn't post there link here* - someone else did.

* probably.

EDIT: welp, saw OP saying 'we'. Nevermind.

Yup, thats right. Sorry for lame landing page. We have a prototype ready but before deciding to formally put it out, quickly wanted to run it down with a few people to see if there is actually some interest. Its largely inspired from the Buffer guy experiment to validate before he decide to finally build it - https://blog.bufferapp.com/idea-to-paying-customers-in-7-wee...

So, Griggi is a new wifi sharing service which counts usage in Karma GB's, while Karma is another, unrelated wifi sharing service? https://yourkarma.com/ That seems confusing, name wise.

Its like Fon except :-

1. There are no telco partners. We directly sell to consumers.

2. Data sharing & usage is metered. You accumulate then you use it elsewhere. Its called Karma GB.

3. We are also thinking of putting up a feature that lets you enable 'free wifi' if you are a cafe/restaurant owner and you need a DIY solution for your customers. Thinking of keeping it as paid feature.

Fon also sells directly to consumers: https://shop.fon.com/en/product/fonera

I can use any Fon router despite not being a client of a partner ISP.

It sounds almost identical to what Fon was originally.

IIRC the original Fon lacked metering of any kind. If you shared for free, you could use for free. If you charged, then you had to pay.

But, if I'm in an area where people are very unlikely to use my WiFi how do I accumulate 'Karma'? Do I then have to buy Karma?

Ya, you pay to buy Karma GB & use it at a Griggi WiFi. The idea is, if the concept becomes ubiquitous, people will be constantly looking for Griggi WiFi when they are close to residential/commercial establishments. You may have someone using your WiFi too :-).

We are also going to put a feature which would let people manage their free WiFi hotspot with Griggi as well.

The vision is to be the default WiFi sharing platform across the world. As a user, you just have your Griggi username, password & you use it to connect to every other WiFi hotspot.

The thing is, the Karma system directly collides with your goal of becoming ubiquitous.

I live in a small residential street where every neighbour who wants Internet has cable or fiber, so the chances of gaining significant Karma are very low. Let's also suppose I'm not a geek.

So, why would I pay $20 (+shipping?) for a new router, ask a friend to come by my house to install it, pay the electricity costs, etc, when in the end I'll still have to pay more to actually use it?

The Karma system eliminates the incentive for almost anyone except those living in busy streets to purchase and run their own router.

And this is helped by the fact that metered connections have all but disappeared around here, so a person with high Karma isn't actually "paying" anything for it, it's merely a rent that she can extract from the location of her property.

So I predict you'll mostly get users in city centers, which is where they are the less useful, since it's also where you can usually already get free or cheap Wifi.

You are mostly right. Everybody has an internet connection now a days. There is sizeable migratory population which could get benefitted from such a system as they dont need a new wifi connection every time they change place provided neighbours have Griggi. Its chicken & egg for sure.

What we are trying to do is similar to what Uber did to cars. Not everybody need to own a car. Similarly, not every household need a dedicated wifi connection when you can borrow some from neighbours.

Apart from city center, big apartments are another good case for Griggi. Big apartments in cities have a good number of migratory population.

Free WiFi hotspots that works is still a rarity in city centers of developing nations. Griggi is also an attempt to organize the unorganized free WiFi hotspots. A couple of guys are trying to solve this problem by building a mobile app that does the job of remembering username password of free wifi hotspots. Griggi is an attempt to solve the problem at the root. But I agree that it also makes things more challenging for us.

Im in the UK, and while I think this is a cool idea we already have BT Openzone/Fon available in a lot of places (It works in a similar way, except its free for anyone who is also on BT). We also have free 'Cloud' WiFi in lots of public places. I'm sure you'll have some success in areas without lots of WiFi hotspots, but you may struggle over here.

They need to be careful of calling their shareable wifi credits "Karma", seems confusingly similar to: https://yourkarma.com

Interesting concept. I am usually left with unutilized 20GB+ at the month end. If concept picks up, hopefully I will be able to trade same when traveling.

Leftover data volume in that massive amount? That could never happen to me :)

In most developed countries, this is against residential service TOS and could subject the operator to disconnection.

Like how you aren't allowed to rent your house like hotels (AirBnB) or to use your personal car as a cab (Uber)?

No, those are laws that you are subject to involuntarily.

I am talking about a contract that you agree to when you purchase service.

Most rental contracts and HOA agreements (where present) ban subletting. Most car insurance bans working as a taxi unless specifically agreed.

Philosophically a good point, but in reality, that is a bad analogy. Your local gas station won't cut you off if you drive for Uber. The guy who built your house won't tear it down if you rent it out. But your ISP can, and will, disconnect you.

There is a significant difference between freely using something you own. vs changing how you use a service that you do not own, and have signed contracts specifying terms of use.

I guess that depends on "If your ISP disconnects you today, can you get internet from another ISP in a week?"

Are you sure that your ISP can really figure that you are sharing internet with others at their end ?

Even if they do, legally speaking, will you sharing the internet connection on your name with your flatmate / family members would amount to breach of contract ? In all likelihood, your flatmate shares the cost of the internet with you. Isnt this case is exactly the same, somebody else using your internet & helping you offset some of your cost. Am I missing something here ?

Only if more than 1 provider is available in your area. With my ISP, sharing with the public is not allowed. As such, any torrenting that happens I am responsible for. The only other provider we have is dial up, which I don't consider an alternative.

Karma in the US appears to be just a LTE dongle which could be from anyone - At&T/sprint. whats the disruption?

Is this based on openwrt? What all hardware you support?

It should be able to support any linux based router OS. The router package is combination of WifiDog (http://wifidog.org), wshaper & a couple of home-grown scripts. The server side is authPuppy (http://www.authpuppy.org/) tightly integrated.

Most of the linux based OS will support the above packages. For others, we are yet to test.

do you have something similar for a multi-access point setup? I am looking for a cloud-based hotspot controller.

Interesting concept..

whats different here from a coovachilli setup?

Its coovachilli with a community & book-keeping server that keeps an account of how much others using your wifi & how much you could use of others. Its very close to Friefunk project actually.

should password protect /dashboard

have you looked at yourkarma.com?

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