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Super Mario 64 HD (roystanross.wordpress.com)
359 points by fla on Mar 27, 2015 | hide | past | web | favorite | 120 comments



Fun fact: we (Naughty Dog) actually had Crash Bandicoot running on SGI workstations in high resolutions using (I think) OpenGL back in 1996. You had to use the keyboard to play, though. :)

See http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/video-games/making-crash/ for more making-of details.

EDIT: And they were running 200Mhz MIPS CPUs - blazing fast!


That blog post series is highly informative and interesting, and goes over a lot of cool technical specifics. I highly recommend reading it to anyone who hasn't.


Considering the N64 is powered by a 93.75 MHz NEC VR4300 CPU (which powered _printers_ such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_LaserJet_4250 ) it is quite blazing fast :)


Indeed. The PS1's CPU ran at 33MHz!


Hey I'm mainly a lurker on hacker news and haven't posted yet, but I just wanted to let you know that Crash Bandicoot is what got me into video games and probably technology in general when I was a kid. If it wasn't for that game there is no way I would have taught myself how to make video games or eventually become a programmer myself. Thank you guys so much for making such an awesome, influential game!


I remember getting a VHS tape from Alias|Wavefront as a PowerAnimator demo or something and there were you guys from Naughty Dog demoing Crash on Indigo2s!


Oh man how I would love to get something from the Crash Bandicoot series running on my computer now.


I you've got a Mac, check out OpenEmu.

Otherwise, go for the lower level part: mednafen.


I read that series of posts a while ago and it is fantastic. Props to the author(s).


Does that mean you remember Rings of Power? That was like the 3rd videogame I ever owned. It was hard.


I remember it, but I didn't work on it. Rings was the game that Jason and Andy had most recently shipped (via EA, I think) when I met them.


SGI Indy with the N64 dev board ?


I don't remember what model they were, but I remember they cost between $20K and $100K, depending on the spec. :)


Damn that's cool :P


Was it OpenGL?


One of my all time favorite is Crash Bandicoot.

Love reading gems like this!

can't find the bit about the opengl tho


Maybe Andy forgot to mention it; it's been a while since I've read the whole series.

The code was C and lisp so it didn't really require any effort to port other than replacing the rendering pipeline. And we used the SGIs to pre-render every frame anyway, to precompute the polygon sort order. (The PS1 had no Z-buffer, so you were stuck sorting polygons at run-time if you didn't do something clever.)

So we already had the rendering pipeline ported. Obviously you couldn't save your game to the memory card, etc. -- some stuff didn't work. But the game was playable (albeit very frustrating with keyboard controls).


That blows my mind, I always assumed it did have a z buffer. So what did you guys do to remedy 'z fighting' triangles? My interest is; I wrote a 3d renderer in Java using fillPolygon() many years ago, and used polygon sorting in place of a z buffer. Z fighting was of course a problem.


Some day I will write this up for real, but without going into detail, here's a summary.

The camera in Crash was on a rail. It could rotate left, right, up, and down (in Crash 2 and beyond, at least), but could not translate except by moving forward/backward on the rail. This motivates a key insight: if you're only rotating the camera, the sort order of the polygons in the scene cannot change.

This allowed us to sample points on the rail and render the frame at each sample point ahead of time, as a batch job, on the SGI using a Z-buffer. (We may have done the Z-buffer with software; I don't remember.) Then we could recover the polygon order of each frame by looking at the Z-buffer. And, even better, at run-time we could simply not render at all those polygons that weren't ultimately visible in the pre-rendered scene. This solved both the sorting and clipping problem nicely, and made the look of the game closer to 3K polygons/frame vs. the 1K polygons we were actually rendering in real time. (Many polygons were occluded by other polygons.)

The trick, though, was what exactly to do with this sort/occlusion information. In a nutshell, what I did was write a custom delta-compression algorithm tailored to the purpose of maintaining the sorted polygon list from frame to frame, in R3000 assembly language. Miraculously, this ended up being quite feasible because the delta between frames was in practice very small -- a hundred bytes or so was typical. And if a transition was too heavyweight (i.e., the delta was too big) we'd either sample more finely in that area or tell the artists to take stuff out. :)

One thing nobody talks about but which is obvious in retrospect is that without a Z-buffer you're pretty screwed: sorting polygons is not O(N lg N) -- it's O(N^2). This is because polygons don't obey the transitivity property, because you can have cyclic overlap. (I.e., A > B and B > C does not imply A > C). This is why virtually every game from that era has flickery polygons -- they were using bucket sorting, which has the advantage of being linear time complexity, but the disadvantage of being wrong, and producing this flickery effect as polygons jump from bucket to bucket between frames.

I'll leave the matter of weaving the foreground characters -- Crash himself and the other creatures -- into the pre-sorted background for another day.


I think Andy Gavin already wrote up quite a lot about those details, here: http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/02/making-crash-ban...


I had to make an account to say this, please do the write up! I've been fascinated by crash ever since playing it in the 90s and had that reawakened after reading Andy Gavins blogposts.

Hearing how you managed to squeeze all this stuff out of what sounds like it was an experimental platform for 3D is just amazing.


Seems like that scheme doesn't necessarily solve z-fighting, unless your method also split overlapping polygons something akin to Newells algorithm.

>>I'll leave the matter of weaving the foreground characters -- Crash himself and the other creatures -- into the pre-sorted background for another day.

Please do \drool


We didn't split polygons, and you are correct that this doesn't provide an absolutely perfect solution either. However, it does in practice eliminate the flickery polygons, because the polygon ordering is far more stable than it is with bucketing.

And you can actually see a difference between Crash 1 and Crash 2+ if you pay close enough attention. For Crash 2, Stephen White cloned the PS1's renderer in software for the SGI so that it was pixel-for-pixel accurate. He did this in like two days, thereby earning himself a place in my top-5-programmers-I've-ever-worked-with list.

If you look closely during Crash 1 while you're moving Crash, you can see sometimes see what Andy not-so-affectionately called "crispies". These are pixel-size flickery bits caused by the subtle difference between the SGI's renderer and the PS1's hardware renderer. Just the difference in the way the two implementations rounded fractional coordinates showed up in the game.


What stood out to me was the graphics in Crash bandicoot series. They always looked very good compared to other games which has the weird jumpy textures and very rough looking meshes.

I must say going with very minimal texture on Crash is intriguing. FF7 also uses very little I believe during combat, they all look like color shaded mesh but it clearly looks good on Crash.

All these development stories from 90s is fascinating, especially because there's a fond childhood attachment to the PSX.

On one of the Playstation Underground Magazine discs there are entire series on the development on Crash Bandicoot. These are truly a gem. Myself having watched the entire series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYlbS5vGNA


Yes, exactly: Crash was flat-shaded (not textured), and I believe it was Jason (Rubin) who made that call.

Crash also benefited from the (at the time) novel rendering model that Andy, Mark (Cerny) and Jason developed. This basically allowed any vertex of crash to move anywhere in the animation sequences -- which was huge, because it allowed Jason to approximate traditional squash-and-stretch even on that limited hardware.


How many of you just downloaded and executed this on a system that can read your email passwords, pgp keys, ssh keys, and dropbox session token?


is there a reason we should be worried about that? :)


Such is the reason that the VM per app was born :-)

Though since this was written in Unity, it would be pretty easy to detect if it were using any of the networking libraries.


A hypothetical trojan horse doesn't have to use the network itself. It could just hide some essential data and/or plant a vulnerability for a later attack.


I didn't. I used the asm.js version.


Where is it? I think you used the plugin version instead.


Oh, yeah. I did, I forgot I installed the plugin.


Honestly, I would love to start seeing platformers like this come out for the PC.


Yes! Mario 64 is a game I will continue to replay for the rest of my life.


There is "a hat in time"[1] which looks really promising and is currently in beta.

[1] - http://hatintime.com/


Sonic Generations is on PC and people have made some neat level mods for it.


This recent game is exactly that. Also made in Unity: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/680102942/freezeme


This feels so ripped. The soundtrack alone feels like someone just chopped up pieces of Mario 64's theme and randomly pasted them together.

And maybe changed the pitch.


The air spin attack was definitely just a Mario jump sound with the pitch adjusted.

It seems to be a 1:1 copy of Mario 64/Galaxy mechanics but without any of the aesthetic charm. Inspiration's good and all, but straight up copying isn't. That's just insanely off-putting to me.


Like Super Smash Bros, man I spent hours on the N64 version!


That's really great as most advanced examples for Unity are at a high price. Most free projects on the web are quite simples. It can be a great starting point to make a 3D platform game.


Cool, seems like it would be the beginnings of a sellable game if it didn't use a bunch of Nintendo assets


Assets? It's literally a clone of a Nintendo product.


Games are not copyrightable, assets are. That said, i can't see this end in anything else other than a C&D unless he actually talks to nintendo.


A concrete example:

the classic game "Descent" was written by Parallax and published by Interplay. The split-up remnant of Parallax owns all of the assets -- the ship name and artwork, the name of the evil corporation, the music, the robot artwork. Interplay owns the name Descent. Anybody can make a game that flies like Descent (Sol Contingency and Geocore are both trying to), but only an Interplay-licensed company can call their game "Descent", and only a Parallax-licensed company can put in the "Pyro-GX" and the "PTMC". And there seems to be some distrust between the two companies.

This has led to a fair bit of complication for the Interplay-licensed Descent:Underground game (currently on kickstarter -- https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/descendentstudios/desce... ). A lot of fans are asking "where's the pyro?" Well, they can't have the pyro, because they don't have a license for that part of the game. They can make a ship that looks fairly similar and flies identically, but it has to be identifiably visually different and have a different name.


This statement surprised me. Is it really true? It appears that there is conflicting precedent:

"The first approach is from the 2nd circuit "The Subtractive Approach" (Altai, Nichols) and the other approach is "The Concept and Feel Approach" (Ruth Greeting Cards, Krofft)"

http://www.newmediarights.org/guide/legal/Video_Games_law_Co...?

I am curious to know what would happen if someone decided to clone the exact level design of a game but changed all the audio/visual assets.


> I am curious to know what would happen if someone decided to clone the exact level design of a game but changed all the audio/visual assets.

This actually happened quite often in early generations of computer games and consoles. Super Mario Bros had quite a few clones where all that changed were the visual assets.

More recently, there are many examples of this happening on the iOS App Store and other venues with a low barrier to entry.


That such people got away with it doesn't mean it's not a violation of copyright law, just that nobody invested the time and money to sue them.


I seemed to recall such Mario clones as well. Nintendo is quite protective of their IP, so I have to think that they must have threatened legal action. Does anyone know? Is there precedent for legally protecting the layout of a level?


Are these bootleg carts? Otherwise they had to approve of everything that was sold on the NES.


I think the clone I'm semi-remembering was a PC game. Regarding your second question: There were very many unlicensed Nintendo games. I don't know how many of these Nintendo fought. They very famously battled Tengen over this issue in the courts.


Well, yes, that's what I meant by "bootleg."


But they are patentable (or at least elements of them can be). Konami successfully sued[1] the makers of In The Groove, a Dance Dance Revolution clone. I know parts of Mario Kart are patented[2], so I wouldn't be too surprised if parts of Super Mario 64 are patented as well, given that it pioneered the 3D platformer genre.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Corp._v._Roxor_Games_Inc.

[2] http://www.google.com/patents/US7278913#v=onepage&q&f=false


Yes but patents only last 17 years? Super Mario 64 is 18-19 years old


Patents can be evergreened with minor changes[0].

Pure speculation: It's possible Super Mario Sunshine(2002), Super Mario Galaxy(2007) and other Mario-like 3D could have "refreshed" any patents from Super Mario 64.

That is, if any patents from Mario 64 exist.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreening


FWIW this http://www.leagle.com/decision/20061170445FSupp2d725_11105 appears to be the text of the decision, I couldn't find a non-commercial source for the text: gpo.gov only has N, W and S Districts of Texas for some reason.

The patent in question, http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US6410835. Espacenet has it too of course, http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/claims?CC=..., but Google is better is it gives the B2 published form of the claims as opposed to the A1 first submitted form. Major fail there for the EPO's ESPACENET in my opinion.

Claims 1, priority date is 24 July 1998:

>"1. A dance game apparatus comprising: music output means for outputting one piece of music from at least one stored piece of music; a floor panel having a step-on base section; said step-on base section comprising a top panel and a support member which supports the panel; detection means for detecting a stepping operation on said step-on base section; said detection means comprising stepping sensors interposed between said panel and said support member at mutually opposing positions of said panel; said stepping sensors comprising longitudinally extending conductive sections having a longitudinal length, one of said conductive sections being moveable laterally relative to another of said conductive sections at any one of a plurality of positions along the longitudinal length of said one conductive section to effect contact with said other conductive sections at any one of a plurality of corresponding contact positions such that said stepping sensors detect stepping on said step-on base sections at plural locations corresponding to said plurality of corresponding contact positions, guidance means for performing a stepping operation instruction to said step-on base section in time with said music; measurement means for measuring a time deviation between the timing of a stepping operation instruction and the time at which the fact that said step-on base section is stepped on is detected by said detection means; and evaluation means for providing a higher score the smaller the measurement result." //

FWIW the Mario Kart patent you cite refers to methods of controlling NPC in order to provide strong rivals, avoid bunching of NPC in racing games and provide variation in race orders despite relatively fixed characteristics (acceleration and top-speed). None of that prevents you having cars with the same styles, having the same tracks, having the same end goals, having the same range of pickups and such - it only relates to specific algorithms for providing competing computer controlled cars/NPC.


As Nintendo supports Unity on the Wii U, this would have been a great project as a tutorial for indie Wii U devs.

Now though, I can't see this as being acceptable for Nintendo.


Wait, in the US APIs are copyrightable but Games aren't? ...


The game's actual source code would be under copyright, but presumably you could re-write a game and exactly copy its gameplay and that wouldn't be copyright infringement any more than writing a poem using the same meter with different words as a famous poem would infringe.


> any more than writing a poem using the same meter with different words as a famous poem would infringe

This is clearly a rabbit hole of exceptions and ifs, but this somehow doesn't apply to music as well, based on the recent judgement over Blurred Lines (the song).


APIs are copyrightable? I don't think so. Oracle lost, after all.

However, on the primary copyright issue of the APIs, the court ruled that "So long as the specific code used to implement a method is different, anyone is free under the Copyright Act to write his or her own code to carry out exactly the same function or specification of any methods used in the Java API. It does not matter that the declaration or method header lines are identical." The ruling found that the structure Oracle was claiming was not copyrightable under section 102(b) of the Copyright Act because it was a "system or method of operation."


That ruling was overturned on appeal. From the same Wikipedia page:

_The appeals court reversed the district court on the central issue, holding that the "structure, sequence and organization" of an API was copyrightable._


> Games are not copyrightable

I have no idea why you think this.


http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

This is long settled in US law. Things like art and text are copyrightable. The game itself is not.


The sentence "games are not copyrightable" isn't particularly meaningful. That does not inform what is or is not protected. The link in question does not say that games are not protected. It says, and I quote, "Copyright does not protect the idea for a game". Keyword: idea. The idea is not protected. The expression is.

What is a game if not an expression of an idea? I would not call the idea for a game a game. I would call the expression of an idea a game. Therefore I would consider games protected by copyright. At least in casual conversation. When speaking in legal terms there is a lot more nuance.

On one hand you can say that games are not protected. Tetris however is. And has successfully been defended us such in court. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/06/defining-tetris-how-co...

If you re-created Mario 64 from scratch but art swapped every asset with something original you would get bitchslapped in court. Hard. The layout and configuration of levels is not an idea. It's an expression of an idea. If you want to make a different level using different assets but using the same mechanics of Mario 64 then that is probably acceptable. You're making your own expression.

It does get a little tricky if you start copying the physics of Mario 64 precisely. There are lots of platformers. Why copy the exactly moveset from Mario 64? Why meticulously reverse engineer the physics of jumping from Mario 64? Copy too much and you run risk of losing a copyright suit as demonstrated by Tetris.


> What is a game if not an expression of an idea?

A set of rules. Such rules are potentially eligible for patent protection. They are not eligible for copyright protection.

> On one hand you can say that games are not protected. Tetris however is. And has successfully been defended us such in court.

I suggest you read the actual text of the Mino decision, which rests heavily on visual elements, not gameplay. I also suggest you not put too much stock in the decision of a single district court judge. District court decisions are not binding precedent. Especially ones obviously written by a judge who either doesn't understand what the functional elements of a game are, or was looking for an excuse to find for Tetris.

> The layout and configuration of levels is not an idea.

Those would be assets.


For you and I to have a meaningful discussion we would need to not use the word game. I'll just leave it at that.

At least you agree with me that layout and configuration of levels is protected by copyright. At least I assume you believe that assets are protected. You don't specify.

All of these waters are largely untested. It doesn't take much discussion to hit them. Good luck.


In the context of this discussion, "game" should probably be read as referring to a particular software implementation of a game, like the game Super Mario 64. Not like the game of chess.


It's actually very important that games themselves aren't copyrightable. What if Doom (or whoever did the first FPS) had a copyright on FPS? There was an interesting article on HN a few months ago about the history of game lawsuits. basically, gameplay is not copyrightable, but characters, assets, etc. are.


Surely it's the 'level' of reproduction that counts? You're argument is like "what if Stephen King had a copyright on characters flipping out and attacking their families" - clearly, that would be ridiculous and no-one would argue in its favour. However, if someone made a scene-for-scene remake of The Shining with different actors, most people would think some sort of copyright permission would be required.


You'd have to rewrite the dialog - but if you did that, you're in the clear, as far as I can see. (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.)


The "Mario" character is copyrighted.


And trademarked.

Edit: and :)



Interesting.


Super Maryo Chronicles


He should just call it Great Giana Sisters 64 HD...


Black Forest Games is still around, and making Giana Sisters games.


I'm pretty sure copyright isn't everything in this.

Trademarks seem a much higher legal barrier for example.


I'm not sure if you understand the video game industry, but literally every popular game is a clone of something that came before it.

EDIT: This is obviously not true for some X where X is a base case of a popular game genre (e.g. Portal, Donkey Kong, Wolfenstein 3d), but it's generally true. Mario 64 is just a 3d platformer at some level, which is why it's so easy to clone.


Either you've redefined "literally" or "cloned" to mean something they don't mean. Or both.


Portal: Narbacular Drop

Wolfenstein 3d: Catacomb 3d

Note- I'm not certain that the games on the right are the originators of the genre of games on the left, but they certainly came prior.


The games on the right certainly are the originators of the games on the left; in fact, in both cases, the developers of the game on the right were the very team which followed up by developing the game on the left.


That's the thing when you get to use a powerful game engine: there is value in the game mechanisms, game assets but not so much in the code.


I like their response to the person who suggested not open-sourcing it:

"Most closed source things will likely be useless in 5-10 years unless constantly updated, and even though not likely. Once opensourced, however, it can endure. You get tired of it, feel it is done, or just need to move on, someone can always come in and make sure it works on new systems. "


Holy intellectual property infringement, Batman!


Yeah, I seem to remember a very similar project (resurrecting this game in HD) being DMCA'd to hell and back a few years ago. Has Nintendo eased up in recent years?


He's not trying to resurrect the game though, he just wrote a character controller so you can implement mario-like control in your game and showcased it with assets from the mario games. Still, I expect Nintendo to come calling any day now and demand that he remove all assets he ripped out.

When that happens, I suggest he call it Dangerous Dave Controller.


It's a cool project with a lot of effort in it. One gripe though...

"Everything is just as you remember, except some really minor stuff that nobody cared about like red coins or the Wing Cap or the Big Bob-omb."

Chain Chomp is missing and lots of people cared about him, and there is a TON of environmental detail missing too, causing the level to look very empty.


From the comments:

"Haha I was mostly kidding about the Wing Cap. It’s actually one of my favourite parts of the game! But the time it would take to do the code and animations would just have been too much extra. Same goes for the other moves, since it took awhile to do each animation. I tried to make sure all the essentials were in first and foremost. Glad you liked it!"


I think he was sacarstic.


Nobody cared about the red coins? Nobody cares about the wing cap?! Nobody cared about Big Bom-bomb?!? This is blasphemy.


See publicfig's comment - the author states that he was kidding, but didn't finish it since it would've added a lot of time to the project.


> ...minor stuff that nobody cared about like red coins...

Wahhhhhhhhh!(?). You needed the red coins to get the star! Who DIDN'T care about the red coins?! I'm not a completionist, but getting the red coins in Mario64 was actually a fun challenge and not some tedious badge task.


Couldn't get it to run under Chromium or Firefox on Linux. Even reset Chromium (since I rarely use it) to defaults. Nudda, blank. Does anyone know what this requires?


It requires the Unity WebPlayer, unfortunately not available on Linux:

https://unity3d.com/webplayer


Anyone start a github repo yet?


There is also a blender based 'remake' (only a demonstration of it actually) on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM9ADXfvnVo


I really ask, why the people do remakes (and mods) of games and risk to be taken down for copyright violations. I think, it would be much more sensible to invest this creativity into creating new games that aren't burdened with copyright pitfalls.


"Super Mario 64 HD" gets over 250 HN points.

"Cool Game I Made Using Unity" gets, well, not that much.


This clearly shows that people love copyright violations. Why aren't they at least consequent and lobby for far more liberal copyright laws. One says "put your money, where your mouth is". I say "put you lobbying, where you HN upvoting is".


Most of these project fold like a cheap suite and could potentially fall under fair use as they are not selling anything.


I noticed an issue with the music : There is a monotone guitar riff in the background that clashes with the main melody at times. Listen carefully and I think once you notice it, it will not stop bothering you.


The background music is “Nostalgic Fortress”, copied directly from Nintendo’s Super Mario Galaxy 2.

I hear the guitar riff in the left audio channel, but I don’t notice it ever clashing with the main melody. It plays varied chords most of the time. When it is monotonous from 0:39 to 0:55, the note it repeats is always a note in the underlying chord, so I still don’t perceive it as clashing.


@jrushing, this might be the greatest thing ever? Though idk if I trust the author yet. I might try it on a blank computer so no important info gets stolen, just in case ;)


Is that specific to just this game? Or is that the case for all games built on top of Unity?


"available for the two most popular operating systems and some lame one nobody outside of it’s devoted cult following actually likes."

Really? Lame one? Devoted cult?


He doesn't say which is which, I think thats the joke.


I thought so too, but saying "two most popular" actually makes it perfectly clear which one he refers to later.


It's a joke. You can interpret any of them as the lame one.


No, not really, no one would contest that Mac and Windows are the two most popular OSes.

Edit: still a fine joke, but not funny for the ambiguity.


I don't understand it. I can't complete the level. Is it just the one level?


What a great game. Anything that inspired the Half-Life games is good in my book.


That games still looks special just from the stills.


Holy shit, the internet is crazy, this is amazing!

It brings back lots of memories...games were so good back then!


It's perfect, I'd really appreciate if the code would be available too.


It is, there's a link to download the Unity project on that page.


Thank you!


This is super awesome. Is the code available too?


Please: GoldenEye and MarioKart!




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