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Preexisting codebases, compatibility with great libraries and mature full-featured frameworks, progressive enhancement of infrastructures already in place, recycling of developers. You name it.

This is not about pleasing the bedroom programmer that can just "go out of his little shell and learn a new language". This is great news for any decent sized project or enterprise with infrastructure already running in PHP.

> compatibility with great libraries and mature full-featured frameworks

So as I said I've been doing PHP. And I have yet to see one of those unicorns in PHP-land. In fact, my first gut reaction was that you're being sarcastic up there.

I was not being sarcastic.

If you already know PHP you should really check out frameworks like Symfony and Laravel (and Symfony Components, amazing reusable pieces to grow your own stuff). Also great tools like Composer for dependency management, PHPUnit, Behat, PHPSpec or Codeception for TDD/BDD. Same with ORMs like Doctrine or the Twig templating engine.

PHP has evolved greatly in the last years. There are tools for most of your needs and you can build stable and robust applications with them, and be excited about the future now that we are seeing efforts like HHVM or HippyVM, or even the internal changes being discussed for PHP 6.

You don't need a new "better" language to make new better products. PHP allows you to write perfectly nice, object oriented, clean code, no problem at all, that integrates easily with proven technologies. It also allows you to write a mess impossible to maintain. If somebody does the later when they can do the former with no extra effort, well, then maybe it's fair to question if that person is a good programmer at all.

I'm familiar with Symfony, etc. Please don't sell it to me as "perfectly nice" code.

The reason most of the PHP code is crap is not because PHP makes it impossible, but because a popular crap language with a low initial learning curve tends to attract a lot of crap programmers.

I'd actually say PHP has only gotten better over time, and every new release is better than the previous one. But you have a crap base (which PHP maintains religiously as not to break BC), and a crap community, and the software they write is crap. It's just what it is. The odd exception here and there.

You can overcome a horrible language, but that's not the problem (plus I'd argue PHP isn't the worst out there).

No, it's the crappy community around it. It's hard to overcome the horrible low quality PHP code libraries people write in PHP, because writing everything from scratch isn't practical in any language these days.

Composer is great and all (except for the lack of package signing, hey, who needs security, right?), but all Composer means you can install other people's PHP crap code more conveniently.

And while I wouldn't call the people behind Symfony "crap programmers", that framework is horribly overdesigned, slow, and comprised of an endless Inception of leaky abstractions.

It shows that a programmer can take all their experience and knowledge of design patterns, best practices and what not, and write a complete piece of turd.

Anyway I better run, because the modding of my posts here is showing I've angered the PHP fans.

Okay, I get where you are coming from. And I have to say that I agree with you on several of your points. But what I wanted to stress in my sort of "defence" of PHP is that, the fact is, lots of valid programmer use it, either for familiarity reasons, due to existing infrastructures or because they actually enjoy it (I do sometimes!). Complete rewrites are a mythical creature in the real world, so why not embrace, improve and push forward anything that tries to make PHP better in the future, instead of dismissing the whole technology as useless.

Symfony and Laravel are pretty good, or so I hear.

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