(Yes, I know the Apple price isn't really about the flash, it's about segmented the user base into 'will pay (lots) more' and 'willing to compromise on the storage to get the cheaper deal'. The net result is much the same for the end user though.)
They are doing 100x 'invite-only' purchases during April, and I haven't seen anything explaining more availability than that.
P.S. does anyone know how they can afford to sell it for so cheap? just looking at the specs I find it hard to understand.
I bought my first smartphone recently, was initially going for a used Nexus 4, since it's on the smaller side of what is considered the usual today, got nice specs and software directly from Google. But when I looked at HTC One mini in the store, I knew I would regret if I buy any other phone, since it's not just ok, but kinda nice; probably the best design you can get short of buying an iPhone (not that it's impossible, but I get a feeling that the competitors are hardly trying). Even though I'm not a fan of Sense UI, and there's no Cyanogen support. I'd like it to be even smaller still (maybe 4.0" instead of 4.3 screen, it shouldn't be a notable difference), but you can't get that with modern phones.
An evidence that current phones are too big is the existence of this: http://www.htc.com/us/accessories/htc-mini-plus/ Get a second, smaller, phone for your phone, so that you won't have to pull out your huge phone each time you need to make or receive a call!
they can't have lots of pixels and cheap price if they go for a small screen. screens are absurdly cheaper as you lower the resolution. and since they can't lower the pixel count, they sell larger and larger phablets.
Yes! 5" is enough to watch videos or read on (though 6" would be better). 4" isn't.
/happy Note 2 user.
We could just consider baseband to be on the untrusted side of the network. Without access to anything but the restricted communication channels the worst things it could do is perform some calculations to eat your battery.
Network operator already knows (or may discover) your rough location and has access to your traffic anyway. So, just make sure private traffic's well encrypted and authenticated, and develop the hardware to be capable of provably powering down the whole baseband module when you want it to be off (location privacy). Problem solved.
In the ARM SoC space that's quite common (blobs at least for 3D graphics).
I don't know if there's something else.
Calling something a killer by itself does not a killer make.
I hope they will be willing to integrate RedPhone by default in it, too, eventually.
As someone who's more technical, I don't necessarily "need" Whisperpush, since I could just use TextSecure directly - however I think it's great that anyone who would be buying this phone would have secure communications by default (without even having to care about it - which is the brilliance of it), and the more people buy it the higher chance they will be communicating with a TextSecure user (or with another TextSecure federated client, since I think you can use the TextSecure protocol like you can with OTR).
The best disclaimer sentence I've found here is: The Google Apps packages are NOT SUPPORTED in any way by Cyanogenmod. Not exactly a huge endorsement, but saying it's not entirely legal is something else entirely.
Would like someone who has expertise to somehow reconcile the above comment to an article like this if possible: http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/12/19/the-oppo-n1-is-offic...
The processor I don't care about since 801 is just a repackaged 800 anyway, like all of Qualcomm's new processors.
edit: maybe not what most people are looking for, so I'll elaborate. To install google apps, you'll need to unlock the device and flash the gapps package. Some people don't want to go that route, so in that case there are two possibilities:
a) You can't have google apps.
b) If OnePlus gets Google CTS certified, then they can bundle the play store and other apps, signed, and bootloader locked. Oppo did so for the N1, so the N1 is a cyanogenmod phone with official google apps support.
Their cheapest model is threading close to the mid-range cheap MTK based Android phones coming out of China.
We used to have 2 weeks of battery life on any normal mobile phone.
It's a trade-off, mate. You're standing at a Lamborghini showroom and saying, "Man, does anyone else here remember when cars used to give us 21 kilometres to the litre?"
It gives me:
- 2 weeks battery life
- Edge internet via Opera Mini for when i really need to look something up
- email access via inbuilt client for when i really need to check any urgent email
- I don't need to worry about running out of battery and not being able to call or message the people that matter to me because my phone spent all of its power connecting to networks to get data that is irrelevant to my day to day happiness or convenience
- I have a very good keyboard to type messages an email
- I don't need a data plan (my €10 plan comes with 150Mb bundled internet that is more than enough for the browsing and email I do)
- I don't worry about loosing / dropping / my phone being stolen
- I don't need covers
- I can go to the beach and not worry about a sprinkle of water and some sand getting in it
- The phone fits in my pocket (any pocket, on any type of clothes)
- I'm not constantly inundated with status updates
- When I'm with friends I'm not checking facebook, or settling bets on wikipedia, or showing them that great new game, I'm just with them...
- When I'm alone, I'm reading a book or contemplating, instead of being absorbed by a never ending stream of entertainment
- I did miss maps for a while, but quickly went back to the habit of asking strangers for directions which returns an extra human touch to my day
We use the unit 'kilometres per litre' when discussing mileage in India, the country where I was born. Now, India is not the most populous nation in the world, but I wouldn't be so harsh as to call Indians 'no one' ;)
I teach GMAT classes, and recently, in the effort to be less US-centric, the GMAT started stating problems in metric units. They, however, still use the US fuel consumption fraction, not the European one, and it feels doubly odd.
I did not know India used this strange mix. Learning new stuff every day.
Anyway, I wonder how this came about. I suppose it's just because India was a British colony that adopted the metric system.
Go back ten years and we had a few days worth of battery life. Fast forward to now, and you'll get two weeks out of any non-smart phone.
I had the 5120 for ages with a better battery from ebay, that came closer to my claims.
how's ur daily usage?
So I would say, expect it last two full days as long as you are not overly heavy mobile user.
Yes, not two weeks, but dumbphones never lasted two weeks back these days. Honestly the new smartphones are finally catching up with reasonable battery life expectations than two years ago.
Let me say that 2 days is when I am gentle with the phone, otherwise it is around 1.5. In any case, a huge difference to how were the first smartphones hardly surviving until the evening.
I find the comments who say "omg it's not cheap why should I buy this" a bit condescending. You can't be any cheaper than the big companies, or else you'll have to beat them at what they're good at. If you can, you're an established player, good on you, but you most likely don't belong on HN.
As always in startup terms, you have to find your individual edge. This will always be a small gadget type of thing initially (as with most web startups), hoping to attain more traction down the line, enabling you to extend your product step by step. I really liked the Jolla phone with its I2C interface and the "second half" concept. Sweet stuff. Unique to the market, catering to the small production volumes they would be confronted with, and most importantly attracting just the right crowd of producers. If Seth Godin's Tribe Marketing rings a bell with you, then this is it.
Oneplus One, or Oppo for short, brings none of this to the table. They have a good high-volume manufacturing process, and have been selling single quantities on aliexpress for a long time. They seem good, but they had nothing unique going for them whatsoever. They used to be the archetypal me-too chinese manufacturer that tries to make a difference by striving for spec high scores (more megapixels! yay!), but neccessarily failing to deliver in other regards.
They have been looking for their edge for some time now, first with that rotatable camera gadget instead of a separate front camera, which at least got them some attention. Alas, there was a reason all other products came with two separate cameras, one being distinct usage scenarios for the two cameras and another being the rather complex case design. So at the end of the day, their design was just a stunt to demonstrate their manufacturing capabilities, and also their ability to justify large investments into injection molds. Impressive, but not attractive to me.
So their next attempt is a tacked on piece of open source software. Of course, these two companies are looking for a match here, with cyanogenmod having no clear business process but a distinctive product, and Oppo having everything else. It still feels like a cheap concept, and evidently they are centering their sales pitch around price. This always feels like a warning sign to me, indicative of a low emphasis on R&D. (Especially when compared to Samsung and Apple, who pump out a remarkable lot of innovative stuff even though they are market leaders.)
So, yeah. Personally I'll be using my second-hand Samsung Note 2 for the time being, and as soon as I feel adventurous I'll try out the Jolla. I'll be watching Oppo, but I could be more excited tbh, and I certainly don't buy into their newly-acquired startup flair. Open Source software just doesn't give you street cred like that anymore.
Companies like Qualcomm and Broadcom are trying to get their chips into popular hardware and as a result they offer reference platforms similar to what AMD and nVidia do in the GPU reference designs. The reference platforms are tight and it's very easy for an ODM to take a reference platform, plug in the missing pieces, slap it in a myriad of custom injection molded cases and produce a high quality device.
The primary differentiators these days are the quality of the added components (e.g. LCD, Flash, Camera modules) being attached to the reference design. Typically you pay the Apple or Samsung tax to ensure you're getting a certain level of quality.
While Google doesn't have the vertical infrastructure of Apple or Samsung, they partner with ODMs for their Nexus line using quality components and their software to make comparable devices a a cheaper price point. However since they are at the mercy of the ODM they don't have ultimate control over the price.
This company is doing something very similar to Google but they control the hardware and are relying on Cyanogen Mod's features and appeal to make up for their lack of software prowess.
Personally I think this type of relationship is very promising.
Then they add Touchwiz... oh touchwiz. I have a galaxy note II which has been a pretty decent phone, but I'm sick of the horrendous lag that touchwiz creates, it's ridiculous. +1 for Samsung innovation and r&d.
From reviewers first impressions of the oppo find 7a it's a pretty decent phone. I'm not about to jump into bed with the oneplus yet, but the most important tickboxes are there, it really depends on build quality. I really really do not think they are trying to pimp this as a cyanogenmod phone, it just happens to be a phone that uses that ROM. Is there any reason companies shouldn't be mentioning this?
I'm really not sure what seems cheap here.
First thing I do is root and then "freeze" AT&T stuff... and number of Samsung Stuffs... and crap like YPages and Flipbook.
Touchwiz seems nice as well, but tons of other launchers that are much better (Simpler is better IMO. Smart Launcher 2 Pro is my poison of choice).
My main beef with Samsung is Knox and the inevitable fight against rooting that the big boys inevitably launch. Note 3 apparently has KNOX, which will void you warranty if tripped (able to root without tripping on 4.3. 4.4 is still unrootable atm and why my OTA is disabled.).
It's the main reason why I would consider a small guy like this. Stock with no fear of bricking or voiding warranty when I do stuff with MY phone.
I tend to use Apex launcher currently, but it doesn't alleviate touchwiz grodiness; amongst other thing there's that classic samsung pause when waking the phone.
I have no reason to know that this is true, but you might assume that the oneplus will be much easier to root and flash, considering it already has a rom like cyanogenmod. That would definitely make it more attractive to me too if that's the case.
The Galaxy S5 costs Samsung something like $246 to manufacturer. It sells for $649 off-contract. Pretty big margins for somebody in that pipeline.
Yeah if you can sell 40+ million a quarter. OTOH if you're sales are more like HTC's you sell your flagship phones to carriers for $400 and break even.
Your analysis pretends that Apple and Samsung are selling very custom hardware at a margin, and so one cannot beat the margin AND beat the custom hardware.
But there is a LOT of wiggle room to experiment with price when the incumbents are running 70% profit margins.
I doubt he forgets it, because it's not true. The 70% difference between retail price and cost to stamp a device at a factory is not "profit margin", because there are further costs, before and after manufacturing, such R&D, organizational and business costs. You can bet Apple is spending more on R&D than almost anyone else, so there is likely no wiggle room at all for anyone to compete on innovation, unless they aim for some niche market.
Actually, Apple spends comparatively less on R&D than any of its competitors. It's increased recently, but for many years - especially in the late Jobs years - people were scratching their heads at how comparatively little they spent on it.
Although since you brought it up, I did a quick search and found that the margins on the iPhone as an individual product (vs. the company's overall margin) are speculated to be near 70% and that figure isn't just pulled out of thin air:
Every company does r&d and manage just fine with non obscene profits on each product. Apple and Samsung create artificial scarcity with lawsuits. They probably spend more on legal than r&d.
Just because revenue is reinvested doesn't mean it isn't revenue or a margin.
And, seeing as Apple has >$100,000,000,000 of cash and near cash, your "reinvestment" line is a total fantasy. Apple is printing cash with a massive profit margin, and reinvesting a tiny tiny tiny fraction of that money back into their business.
Your sentence is a little confusing, because calling something revenue means it is revenue. And while related, revenue is not the same as margin.
And please note that the bill of materials for a phone is only a part of the cost of goods sold, which as mentioned by others, also includes manufacturing, assembly, marketing, r&d and other costs. Those costs are generally not considered to be "reinvestment".
According to Yahoo Finance (which is a pretty good resource for non-professionals), the profit margin is currently 21%.
Unit margin is an important number to account for and work to maximize, basically because you assume that as the number of units you sell increase, your fixed costs become less and less relevant to your overall company profit. But unit margin is always higher than overall company profit margin.
EDIT: Also, obviously, unit margin varies by sku. The iPhone 5s and the iPad Air are probably the highest-margin items that Apple sells (some of their Macs may compete). Things like iPods and iPhone 5cs are likely lower-margin.
I'm quite certain they are separate companies, at least legally.
Why is that necessarily a bad thing? Vizio, for example, has great success at selling LCD TVs, because it relies on Samsung and Sony to pave the way with R&D, and then it imitates their innovations a few years later and comes out with a lower priced product that's just as good. One+One can be the Vizio of smartphones - delivering current-gen features at low prices, and waiting for Samsung/Motorola/HTC/whoever else to pave the way (and earn profits for a few years) before coming out with a generic version that sells for much less.
Currently, the market is split between high-end very expensive devices (Galaxy S, iPhone, HTC One) which incorporate new features with every iteration, and crappy underpowered handsets which, frankly, suck. I think there's definitely room for a handset that doesn't necessarily innovate, but delivers a solid current (or even previous) generation user experience at a low price.
For sure, Samsung are providing top-end Android devices, but the Nexus 5 is competitive with all the Galaxy S type handsets currently out there, plus the iPhone 5/5S too, and at a fraction of the price.
I think they just did. LG and Samsung have been doing remarkably well off with off the shelf components and I think this entire comment undervalues the cost of distribution and marketing that gets rolled into the cost of the phone.
Hasn't it always been apple's defense that most end users don't care about specs. So I find most of this comment inconclusive at best.
You may not be their target market.
The two pictures are identical! They've photoshopped the original to look shittier, and passed it off as being taken by another smartphone.
No one forced Typo to copy the exact RIM keyboard.
There's plenty of precedent here :
If they added that, I would get one, the price is amazing - although I'd flash a default CM image over it to get rid of that metro theme they've added.
If I only have 64GB (plus OS overhead, plus normal data, plus Android likes to report as being out of space when there is still some left), then once I put my music on, I'm almost out, not ideal when I want a few large apps, to download a large file temporarily, etc...
Pretty much. It seems like it's such a trivial feature that it shouldn't matter, but dear god it is convenient. Can never go back after 1 year with the palm pre a few years ago.
I bought the s2 for 400 on release day and it was awesome enough. Nowadays the s5 is 6-700 on release day.
if they deliver what they show - im probably getting one of these oneplus - not a S5 or even an xperia Z2 - thanks but no thanks.
I had my phone for over 3 years now and aside from some tiny screen scratches everything is great. Why can't any manufacturers really stand behind their products and support them for something like 5 years?
Even google with all the money and more interest in acquiring users joined the greed bandwagon by removing Sd card slots and doing things in software to ensure device obsolency ever couple years.
if a side effect of their greed for your data or not, you cant deny you will need an upgrade every year or so to keep up with app sizes.
heck i cant install firefox on the first three nexus had i not hacked the kernel to allow apps on sd.
Though, I suppose they could develop some sort of solution that manages the split for the user so you can expand the memory and never worry about what it saved where...
All that said, I definitely prefer large internal memory over having an expandable memory slot... If I'm forced to make the choice.
Reverse the question: Why don't manufacturer only support it for 6 months, or until the next phone comes out? What is preventing that from doing that?
iOS7 in particular was a troublesome upgrade for me. It had issues with my 4's (and my wife's 4S) proximity detector. I would end up face dialing in the middle of a call. And that's just one of many annoyances that came with upgrading to iOS7. I would have been happier if Apple cut off updates after two years.
Compare that experience to my Moto G (that replaced my 4), and each of the updates I've gotten (albeit in a short period of time) have had real performance improvements, unlike the mostly cosmetic animation "speed improvements" that came with the last iOS 7 update for iPhone 4.
Especially given most fixes require a significant portion of the cost of the phone to perform.
Near the bottom there's a $30/month plan with 5gb LTE data, unlimited text, and 100 voice minutes.
The Nexus 5 bootloader unlock confirmation screen says it may void the warranty. From what I've heard, LG/Google never gives people trouble about root when there's a hardware problem.
The CyanogenMod page tells me nothing. "Killer phone"? meh. Address my needs; if it's not smaller than an iPhone and can migrate me from that ecosystem, forget it. Otherwise, it's just a list of specs.
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on the matter, especially if you think I'm misinterpreting the motivation behind it.
edit: Muphry's Law, and trying hard not to ask why people are downvoting my curiosity (but failing)
Author is from a culture where the currency symbol goes after the sum, does not realise it's before in the US. Internal inconsistency likely linked to multiple authors and lack of review.
Since when is putting the currency sign in the "wrong" place "hip"? Why would you assume such a thing instead of a honest mistake? You even linked to a page stating:
> many [non-anglo non-latin-american cultures] place [the currency sign] after the amount
(note that contrary to this article's exact wording, this is cultural rather than currency-based, within the EU some countries put the € symbol before the amount, others after: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_issues_concerning_th... — and this is not solely linked to english-speaking, Austria uses prefix where Germany uses postfix; Denmark and Latvia use prefix, ...)
You mean, "internally consistent"? As in "How much is it?" "One dollar." -> "1$". That's how the (spoken) language works.
I apologize for complaining about downvotes - I'm just very surprised and disappointed that some innocent curiosity is getting such a vehemently arrogant reception.
Also, I don't appreciate your thanking me as a way of passive-aggressively casting judgment on other downvoters. Nobody owes it to you to explain their downvote. I get that it was unexpected and kind of dismaying, but that doesn't mean drive-by downvoting was the wrong thing to do here.