A myopic way to look at hiring.
You should care about the delta of an engineer's career and knowledge. That says a lot more about how they'll perform now and in the future.
These days companies prove themselves to engineers. I'd rather see something like a more descriptive and meaningful glassdoor so that I can know what companies are worth my time.
"$company is in the 67% percentile for employee freedom in your job type [Software Engineer]"
"$company practices open allocation."
"$company is known for fast-firing. They are also known for paying XX% above average for your job type [Software Engineer]"
I don't want some bullshit tag-based skill endorsement clone of LinkedIn profiles. I hate LinkedIn for a reason. I definitely don't need to be even more discoverable by recruiters - my website is a fucking curse on that front as it is. I leave it up because I do get valuable conversations going because of it.
I'm more interested in sites that could further balance the lopsided information power dynamic between employers and employees.
I want to know if there's a chance of a fit between me and the company before I even email somebody.
A company is more likely to be able to recruit me the more substantive information I have about what it's like to work for them. Shut the fuck up about perks, tell me about how you empower your employees to perform their best and entrust them to do the job as it needs to be done.
Things like sourcing.io don't just hurt engineers, they hurt the companies that recruit like this (technology checklisting) too.
Making it even easier for lazy recruiters to be shitty is a bullshit thing to do. May the spam of a thousand recruiters looking for "Senior Java developers" flood your inbox and decimate your sanity MacCaw.
Hi Chris--I completely agree that an engineer's ability to learn is a huge part of their value. With that said, many companies are searching for engineers who are intimately familiar with particular languages or frameworks. Anyone can get comfortable with a new framework over a weekend--it takes much longer to be become an expert.
Your idea for a better Glassdoor is an interesting. In the future we're hoping to build a set of tools for engineers who are interested in getting a job--we'd like to cater to both sides of the market.
Alex and I do not want to increase the volume of recruiting spam in the world. Poorly-constructed, boilerplate emails are the mark of a bad technical recruiter--we're not building tools to help them. We want to give the great technical recruiters a tool to help them figure out if they should be sending an email to an engineer in the first place. Furthermore, we're encouraging our customers to have the C*O's and engineers construct and send the initial emails--an email from the person you'd be working with is much better than another piece of recruiting spam.
If you'd like to get in touch and chat more please feel to email on firstname.lastname@example.org.
* broadcast my availability to a group of approved (company) recruiters
* let recruiters propose companies to me (and have me list companies I already have contacts at or was introduced at.)
* let me set up job interviews with the interesting opportunities
* and, most importantly, let the recruiters/companies place bids on me negotiate.
I've found that every time I'm on the market I'm essentially running this auction myself and it's a lot of work.
Given the massive impact it has on my earnings I'd love some tooling that would let me focus on the important parts of this process rather than the administrative minutiae.
I had the idea that it could be beneficial to freelancers/contractors as they do the same thing but usually in much more limited time scales to the x months I took. I'm one to share ideas because if someone makes it, I'll stop building it. As someone that wants to be a freelancer at some point, I don't look forward to the oDesks of the world (no offense to people that do great there) but having just something to keep all of these plates spinning more freely would help a lot of people I think.
Well, the main problem is that companies often don't know what skills they really need, and employees don't get a sense for the work culture from vague job descriptions.
Last, from what I heard was that most freelance jobs go via the personal network anyhow.
Just curious if there are others interested in discussing a better project platform for freelancers, and the way to meaningful work? Have a look at http://voki.me for a rough prototype.
When I made the switch from C# to Python it probably took me a year or two before I became as good at Python as I was at C#. This is also true for a lot of the developers I currently work with who are using Python for the first time.
There is something to be said about being a master of a language, libraries, and tooling around a certain platform and getting there isn't a quick 1-2 week crash course in the language. Sure you can figure out the syntax and make things work, but if you are truly an expert in 1 language, you wont be comparable in another for at least a year while you use the language and learn the ins-and-outs.
People never ask me language questions at work, "how do I do a for loop", but I get daily questions on how virtualenvs work, python packaging, and what libraries to use.
The problem is the tacit assumption that the engineer doesn't also need to pre-validate the company before an interview.
This statement is also myopic and bordering on cliche. While true, there are a lot of times want to hire for a specific skill set. For instance, if there's a problem that needs solving right now, or a team that needs a new lead (assuming you must bring on outside leads), or a whole number of scenarios.
> You should care about the delta of an engineer's career and knowledge
This is, often times, a great indication of how competent an engineer will be.
What the flying fuck?
I already get a TON of recruiterspam (much of it hilariously inaccurate, like offering me a relocation bonus to move to the city I was living in).
Based on their "How do you find engineers" answer
> We scour the web, and use multiple different sources of public data to find candidates. Next we put all that information through a variety of different algorithms to try and separate the wheat from the chaff.
We don't currently have a quick-and-easy way for you to opt out--we will do soon. If you'd like to email me on email@example.com I'd be more than happy to find your profile, show it to you, and remove it permanently.
As an aside, we really hate recruiter spam too. We've just got started but our plan is to build a tool to help great recruiters manage engineer-to-engineer outreach--it's much better to receive a recruiting email from the person you'd be working with. If you're interested, they can connect you to their technical recruiter who can manage the process from there.
Apologies for the confusion here--we're going to be adding a much more detailed explanation of what we do to the homepage soon. In the meantime, this blog post gives a broad outline of what we're doing: http://blog.sourcing.io/hello-world
Our introduction blog post says a bit more about our mission.
Believe it or not, I hate 'spam' recruiting emails as much as the next engineer. This is how I feel about them:
We're not here to increase the spam problem - quite the opposite. We've put a number of safe guards in place against this kind of abuse:
* We don't allow big recruitment agencies known for spamming on the system.
* Our system is geared around referral based recruiting - finding people already connected to your company. For example, promoting candidates who follow one of your engineers on Twitter. This is the type of recruiting we live for and want to promote.
That said, there are definitely some things we should (and will) do.
* Allow developers to see, edit and update their own profiles
* An instant opt-out button
Let me know if there's anything else I can answer.
This is a very valid criticism--we need to do a much better job of explaining the service to engineers. Like most startups, we've got a list of things we'd love to build but haven't had time to. With that said, the tools for engineers could certainly have been prioritized. At the very least, we should have added a simple way to opt out. We will be adding this soon.
It's a specialised search engine. It aggregates public data, data you have said the world should see, and presents it in a form that a particular userbase might appreciate.
But I looked at the https://help.github.com/articles/github-terms-of-service and I don't think it says you can't scrape to a database, although at least one clause about reselling or whatever causes a question.
Its cool if they are honest in their marketing and actually add something to github search, which I am pretty sure they do, because github search isn't very good.
Anyway seems very useful but don't really like the marketing.
I'm sorry to to hear that you don't like the copy on the homepage--it's definitely a work in progress and I appreciate the feedback. We're going to be adding a section for engineers soon.
Just as Google keeps a copy of the web, we have an index of all the engineers we can find in a database. This is built up by crawling publicly available information.
Great question. Our database is built up by indexing publicly available information. Some (or all) of the engineers that connect their accounts will already have a GitHub account and, if so, will probably be in our index. However, we certainly don't use the social connection feature to index even more people, particularly if they're not publishing code and are more private.
The ability to see your team's extended network of engineers is really useful but we recognize that it's pretty scary to connect your personal social accounts to an app that's work-related. We're working hard to earn the trust of the engineers who happy to share their network with their employers.
This approach has been already tried many different times. I've got some friends that really pushed really high on that whole "recruiting via web scrapping" thing - https://masterbranch.com/ ( feel free to contact them, they are really nice guys ).
I wish you luck because I understand this approach never really worked for anyone. IMHO, it's simple [Disclaimer: I created a super fancy ATS software / job board too and did all the sales up to a point of really hating HR people :)], recruiters are truly lazy and are interested only on tools that do their job - something understandable as the sourcing part of the job is really weary. Web scrapping tools instead of doing their job just add more noise to it, i.e. forward them tons of profiles that are not really interested in the specific job posting they are marketing. You might think most developers are always open to move because some of us might be, but many people are really happy with their daily jobs, so this sort of tool always ends up making angry both sides of the coin: the developer and the recruiter.
So, it does not really matter that your "database" has 4M people on it. Even if those are somehow linked to the company recruiting. When as a recruiter I search for "node.js programmer" and get 100 results back but 99 of them are not interesting in changing jobs, well... that sucks. I wouldn't use the tool again myself. And going further with this example, well, believe me, most recruiters would think the tool sucks if just the first three profiles are not interested in the job.
But hey, I insist, I wish you the best of luck. Just pointing some stuff I learnt ( hopefully for you wrongly learnt ) during my HR entrepreneurship stage.
I purposefully went to the site hoping I could see something on myself without going behind a paywall. I'm starting a new gig on 1/6 and even if I weren't, I'm not quite the "target market." I do want to recommend this to the powers that be and hopefully use myself as a "control" to find a somewhat adequate replacement. I'm such a jack of all trades though that I'm afraid I may not be adequate for that either.
I do quite understand that $95/mo is much less than any recruiter fee over time so I completely understand the value of this service. It'll just be really hard to do a cold recommendation to have my soon-to-be-ex employer spend money on something they wouldn't be able to evaluate as easily as I can. I may be addressing problems Sourcing.io can't really speak to anyway. These may be "shoot ourselves in the foot" sort of issues no one can address but them.
Sounds like that dating site that scraped facebook and called it their userbase:
Honestly, sometimes this stuff really works and only seems shady before it takes off.
But sometimes it's just shady.
Although the social connections feature is really helpful, there are lots of other ways you can use Sourcing.io to search for engineers. There a lots of other ways to filter the data: location, project contributions, language experience, current employer, et al. For example, to find people who might be a fit for your DevOps role at Perfect Audience, you might want to see all the engineers that had contributed to Graphite's web app (https://github.com/graphite-project/graphite-web) or have lots great DevOps people following them on Twitter--we try make these kinds of searches really easy to do.
Right now we don't have a simple way for engineers to see what their profile looks like--we'll be adding this soon. In the meantime, please feel free to email on firstname.lastname@example.org so I can show you what your profile looks like. If you'd like to be permanently removed from our index I can do that right away.
While that is a possible outcome, we're working really hard to make sure that doesn't happen. We'd hate to be responsible for an increase in the volume of recruiter-spam sent to engineers every day. Although this isn't on the homepage, we are planning to add a set of tools so that engineers can manage their profiles and companies' technical recruiters can coordinate engineer-to-engineer outreach. We believe that it's a lot better when engineers should receive cold recruiting emails from the people they'd actually be working with.
I get enough spam already from recruiters on LinkedIn - even though I've said I'm not looking for work.
If you want to make this useful, become opt in only.
As a recruiter, I don't want to waste time emailing people who aren't looking for work.
Apologies for the delay in responding your tweet--I found it here(https://twitter.com/edent/status/415537481829068801). I'll get back to you over Twitter as soon as we've removed you from the index.
We are working on a set of tools to allow engineers to manage their profile on Sourcing.io (and opt out)--I hope that they'll be good enough to encourage you to re-join.
Please, I urge you to move to an opt-in only model. Otherwise you run the risk of being as despised as Klout and other similar forced participation sites.
I completely understand your perspective. The problem for companies who want to recruit great people is that most of them aren't looking for new a job (several studies put the percentage at around 80%). Therefore, companies are forced to reach out to those people to pique their interest. There's a subset of great companies who take the time to craft personalized, relevant emails to these people; there are some who even get their engineers to write the initial email. We want to work with these kinds of companies.
Right, then they're not looking for a new job. What part of that do you not understand?
That said, opt-in is the way to go. I definitely don't understand the seemingly contradictory point of view of them saying "we don't like recruiter spam either" and "we find ways for companies to send unsolicited requests".
So, I would fall under the categorization of "aren't looking for a new job", while at the same time don't agree with the opt-out (without an actual opt-out mechanism) nature of this service.